valerian root and sleep quality

This discussion makes me grateful when sleep comes easily.
Wakefulness can be (and was) very frustrating;
and I fully understand the desperation expressed here.
It has occurred to me that researchers may tend to look more at
why people do NOT sleep easily--instead of how and why others DO.
The insomnia epidemic has taken its toll far too long.
Solutions are way overdue.

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:00 pm

i take it from your responses that you've never tried valerian root?

Is one side effect that you jump to conclusions easily?

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:01 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:00 pm

i take it from your responses that you've never tried valerian root?

Is one side effect that you to conclusions easily?

i'm sorry, i really am. i've been looking at that sentence for a few minutes now. but no matter how long i look at it, i can't make sense of it.

my fault, i'm sure!

zonker wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:52 am

i'm sorry, i really am. i've been looking at that sentence for a few minutes now. but no matter how long i look at it, i can't make sense of it.

my fault, i'm sure!

No, I hurried to the kitchen when a timer sounded and indadvertently left out "jump". Corrected now.

You might want to have a look at this study - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4394901/

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:00 pm

You might want to have a look at this study - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4394901/

oh, thanks for the link. i just skimmed it, will do a deep dive later.

one thing stands out on the skimming part; insomnia.

now, i don't necessarily think of what i'm going through as insomnia. that very word to me paints a much harsher picture. it brings to my mind me tossing and turning, sighing, punching the pillow and eventually falling asleep.

i feel more like it's much milder than that. just an arousal that takes a few minutes to shrug off.

sleepfoundaion.org defines insomnia this way-

"According to guidelines from a physician group, insomnia is difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, even when a person has the chance to do so. People with insomnia can feel dissatisfied with their sleep and usually experience one or more of the following symptoms: fatigue, low energy, difficulty concentrating, mood disturbances, and decreased performance in work or at school."

i suffer none of those symptoms.

so, am i trying to cure insomnia?

all righty, then!

i've read the links posted and appreciate them very much. well, i've read all except that long assed one jnk posted. i'm not smart enough to actually appreciate what the paper was trying to state.

have run it past my doc and he doesn't see where it will have any adverse effect in conjunction with other supplements i'm taking. and besides, i wanna do it anyway!

so will commence tonight taking 2,160 mg one hour before bed time. will report back periodically to let you know how it's working.

if this does the same for me as melatonin (that is, just put me to sleep) then i won't be taking it for very long.

i understand this may take some weeks to actually produce any results.

if this works for me, fine. if doesn't work for me, that's fine too. this isn't a make or break situation. i'm merely curious as to what the results will be.

i'll keep you posted!

Wishing you good luck and success.

For people to learn they have to try and for us to learn we have to hear from the people willing to try.

Please do report back. I will be watching. I rarely have trouble falling asleep but I get way more wake ups during the night than I would like to accept and I am always trying something to have less fragmented sleep. Sometimes I can go back to sleep but here lately not so much and I am such a grouchy bitch when running on 4 hours of fragmented sleep.

My CBD oil experiment is on hold for right now...Vivian died and she was my partner in crime for that experiment and near as we figured out before she died was that the dosage to actually impact sleep for us was pretty damn pricey.

will do, pugsy.

and sorry for your loss.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:13 pm

. . . all except that long assed one jnk posted. . . .

The rest of the info was mostly just to show that the undocumented-efficacy issue with valerian is not unique, especially when seen in the context of ALL substance/pharmacological approaches to insomnia, and that is particularly true when it comes to sleep-maintenance insomnia. The only approaches that I am aware of with any compelling "numbers" behind them are CBT-type approaches, and frankly my opinion is that those approaches only seem to have "numbers" because the nature of the approaches tends to taint the outcome evaluations with patient and researcher subjectivity.

Another issue I have with insomnia treatments is that they generally assume that, or at least the treatment research is framed as if, insomnia were a standalone issue as a primary medical problem on its own, instead of seeing it for what it more often is (assuming, of course, it isn't sleep-breathing related)--a side-effect of another medical approach or a symptom of an unresolved emotional/mental puzzle that is not yet sufficiently worked through. Those types of pains can be just as disruptive to consolidated sleep as physical pain can be.

Valerian may help someone bring down his or her anxiety level during the day, but that doesn't get at the, um, root, of the cause of the anxiety, and valerian is gentle enough in normal doses that it doesn't seem to put a dent in any anxiety-related sleep issues.

The above are only my overly-simplified statements based solely on my personal overly-simplified views and observations.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:13 pm

so will commence tonight taking 2,160 mg one hour before bed time

Just don't forget the active ingredient in these supplements is poorly standardized if at all. You might get a lot of active ingredient in one bottle and just a little bit in the next bottle.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:24 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:13 pm

so will commence tonight taking 2,160 mg one hour before bed time

Just don't forget the active ingredient in these supplements is poorly standardized if at all. You might get a lot of active ingredient in one bottle and just a little bit in the next bottle.

Yep. And that fact is particularly true for supplements for which the active ingredients have not even been identified in order to form a rudimentary basis for even starting to form criteria for standardization of any sort, such as is the case with valerian.

"The components responsible for the effects of most botanicals have not been identified or clearly defined. For example, the sennosides in the botanical senna are known to be responsible for the laxative effect of the plant, but many compounds may be responsible for valerian’s relaxing effect." -- https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Botan ... fessional/

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:24 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:13 pm

so will commence tonight taking 2,160 mg one hour before bed time

Just don't forget the active ingredient in these supplements is poorly standardized if at all. You might get a lot of active ingredient in one bottle and just a little bit in the next bottle.

i'll take it with my eyes wide open!

HAR HAR HAR

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:04 am

HAR HAR HAR

teehee

okay, update time, i guess. it hasn't been quite a week since i started but figured i'd post what's going on anyway.

started last thursday, april 12. i'm using Sundown Naturals Whole Herb Valerian Root 530 mg for what it's worth. as per instructions on the bottle, took 4 capsules 1 hour before bedtime. well, cheated that and took them about 1 1/2 hour before bedtime. first result was it made me yawn prodigiously 1 hour after i'd swallowed them.

which is odd. since cpap treatment, i don't generally yawn at all. and when i'd taken melatonin before, i didn't yawn either. so wasn't sure if this really meant anything or not. remember, i'm not looking for help in falling asleep. i want to STAY asleep.

speaking of melatonin, valerian root doesn't leave me feeling logy the way melatonin did. i mean to say, not logy at all.

well, this doesn't seem to be doing anything towards my goal so far. one night, i did hit a four hour stretch of uninterrupted sleep. that was about 3 nights ago and it hasn't duplicated.

my ahi has been all over the place. but i'm uncertain if valerian root is to blame. on my second night, AHI was .90. next night 1.79 then 2.32. i've stayed in that general area for 3 nights. typically, my ahi is around 1.50 to 2.

so not the great results i had hoped for. but, it's early days yet. i've only taken 28 of the 100 available capsules,

so i'll press on and report back on it next week!

Herbs. Not standardized for active ingredient. lmao