Resmed F20 Full Face Problem

Hello All, I'm new to cpap. I have a resmed airsence 10 cpap, setting of 9, and a nasal mask, Maraige FX, that works perfectly, ahi in the <2, all else well. sleep like a log. I wanted to get a full face mask in case I get a cold, or basically try it and see if I like it better. I got the mask, resmed F20 full face, and gave it a try. worked horrible. I woke up many times, my ahi was 37 but my mask fit very well according to the machine. this happened twice. I went back to my hospital supply that checked everything out, said it was ok, my adjustment and mask fit was good, they said give it a try again. same result. she called her resp guy at the sleep study and he said he didn't have a clue. she called resmed and they said basically the same thing. it does seem a bit noisy compared to my nasel mask. I am at a loss. I would love to have, and need, a full face mask but cannot spend another 100.00 plus to fail again. I would appreciate any ideas.

thanks
scott

Unless you've had the mask in question more then 30 days you shouldn't be out the 100 dollars you spent. You should be able to swap that mask for another one of a different model etc... free of charge.

If the mask "fits" truly then I'm also baffled by how you could have such a horrible shift in numbers with the FFmask vs what you have been using.

Is this the memory foam cushion or the other style?
I've used the memory foam version and the air noise from the elbow diffuser was louder then other masks that I'd tried in the past... however the foam in the mask cushion made it so the cushion wouldn't flutter on the edges when it leaked so it didn't "sqweek" this was great for my wife [didn't wake her as much] but not so good for me as the foam mask was leaking a lot more then my old one and the fact that the leaks were muted they didn't wake me up ether to fix them. So my numbers were suffering a bit from the leaking issues. With my current mask if it leaks the noise usually bothers me and I will grab at the mask and shift it till it shuts up and drift off to sleep like nothing happened.

I'll say again if you got the mask from a reputable place you shouldn't be out all that money if it didn't work for you. You should be able to take it back and try something else.

Let us know how things work out.

Some one else may weight in with more info.

Good luck

Gryphon

download sleepyhead and get the manual for your machine and get some charts up. My guess is the nasal mask is at fault, because more things can go wrong and the f20 is right.
http://www.apneaboard.com

Maybe these videos will help in fitting your mask properly.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... k&fr=yfp-t

thanks everyone for the response. I have checked the fitting videos and I had two people at my supply store check the fit. my software says its a very good fit, for what that's worth. my supply store has a 14 day return and I have missed that. I should have checked it sooner. but my nasal mask works so well I didn't rush. lesson learned. the lady at the supply store called me back and she said she talked with one of the techs at the sleep lab, and he said one of his collegues at another sleep lab has said that sometimes a full face mask takes a bit higher setting than a nasal mask, but that he himself has never found that to be true. its not the end of the world. someday I will try another brand. my f20 is the standard mask, I don't think it has any special feature. it looks just like my nasal mask except its bigger. and yes, it does make more noise around the vents but nothing that seems odd. maybe its just one of those things that it and I don't work together. it makes me sad, because I really like the way I breath with it.

With such a huge change in your numbers while using the FFmask I as a few others have stated would get sleepyhead and look at the detail data from a FFM night VS your old mask and see what is going on.

You can't have a 10+ times jump in AHI with out something telling being recorded on your machine. Though if your just looking at the screen in the morning that isn't going to help.

I'd recommend screen capturing a night with the bad results and one of the good and showing us a side by side. Maybe we can work out what is going on.

Best of luck. You may also reach out to the manufacturer about a refund if you return the mask. I'm fairly confident the time frame should be 30 days not 15 and the lower number may just be an in-house limit imposed buy that supplier.

I could be wrong about that though.

Thanks

Gryphon

With this being reported

Hounds3 wrote:I woke up many times,

My first thought would be SWJ event flagging...not real.
Second thought would be that with a full face mask sometimes more pressure is needed to prevent the airway collapse...so if they were real maybe must more pressure is needed.

If the machine is indeed the AirSense 10 CPAP machine that is the bare bones basic half assed brick and we have nothing but summary numbers to evaluate.
No graphs at all. No way to know if the events flagged are central or obstructive.

SleepyHead will be pretty much useless.

Now if the machine is at least the AirSense 10 Elite or AutoSet then of course we have full data machines but if it really is the AirSense 10 CPAP (and it's clearly shown on the face of the machine as to which model) then there's not much more than the AHI numbers to go on.

Hounds3 wrote:I have a resmed airsence 10 cpap, setting of 9, and a nasal mask, Maraige FX,

If that's what you have...SleepHead will be useless as all that model machine will offer you is generic AHI (no event category breakdown) and the pressure which you already know is 9 cm and I think a 95% leak number.

So the high AHI might be Sleep/Wake/Junk from the multiple remembered awakenings or it might be that the apnea events caused the awakenings because the pressure of 9 didn't prevent the airway collapse.
For some people who use a nasal interface mask and make a switch to a full face mask they have found that they end up needing more pressure with a full face mask.
Not sure why unless the full face mask and straps alter the neck/airway positioning or pull the jaw back which can obstruct the airway more and make it so that more pressure is needed to hold the airway open.

If you do have the half assed brick CPAP model the first thing I would do is see if I could at least get the Elite model (but would prefer the AutoSet).
If you can't and you wish to continue the full face mask experiment then you need to try increasing the pressure but you are flying with some serious blinders on since there is nothing but AHI to monitor.

FWIW....I have been on cpap for over 8 years now and not once have I had a situation where I couldn't get the nose cleared up enough to use a nasal mask. For 6 years I didn't even own a full face mask.

yes, I have the brick model. and I do think there is something to the pressure theory. my event ahi during my sleep test was 91. both times I used the full face mask it was around 37. my nasal mask is averaging less than 2 usually. so it is working, just not as well. I'm not going to spend much more time on it now. I am so glad that I am finally sleeping again and feeling better that I will just stay with what I have and what works for now. all I have at the moment is ACA high deductible insurance so a new machine is out. maybe in a few years when I get on medicare I can do something. I appreciate all your help.

Hounds3 wrote:yes, I have the brick model. and I do think there is something to the pressure theory.

If you want to continue using the full face mask then you will just have to play with the pressures and see what seems to work.
Past experience from people who did notice a difference (but of course YMMV) was a 2 or 3 cm pressure difference.
It's very possible that the wake ups you had were from apnea events not being prevented well enough.
It's a starting point of something to try if you want to use a full face mask.

Just checked, and my machine has no SD card installed. Are they supposed to come with one?

Yeah...supposedly they are supposed to come with them.

Just go to WalMart and get one. Cheap generic will work just fine...but all you are going to see is what you see on the machine's LCD screen.
SleepyHead may or may not even show you that and you might need ResScan.

Zmartha wrote:I use the Airfit P10 and I have noticed some leakage some nights and my therapist counselor says to notice what pressure is pushing through on the machine because she said it might be set too high.

it might be too high for the way you have it adjusted, fits your face and have the wrong mask for you. I doubt it would be too high to treat your apnea properly, or more than likely the machine wouldn't have gone there. in general it's not good practice to put up with a leak or reduce pressure to fix it.