What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
DeeCPAP
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:32 pm

What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by DeeCPAP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:51 pm

I've never seen 'clear airway' show up in SleepyHead, but suddenly, I'm finding quite a few.

Can anyone explain?

Thanks

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: XT Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: My headgear varies (STILL!)
Resmed S9 with humidifier and in need of the right mask.

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by LSAT » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:00 pm

You stop breathing for 10+ seconds but there is no blockage as there is in an apnea event.

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 pm

DeeCPAP wrote:I've never seen 'clear airway' show up in SleepyHead, but suddenly, I'm finding quite a few.

Can anyone explain?

Thanks
Please feel free to search the archives of the forum:

viewtopic/t158231/search.php?keywords=% ... +airway%22


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

User avatar
DeeCPAP
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:32 pm

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by DeeCPAP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:29 pm

Wulfman... wrote:
DeeCPAP wrote:I've never seen 'clear airway' show up in SleepyHead, but suddenly, I'm finding quite a few.

Can anyone explain?

Thanks
Please feel free to search the archives of the forum:

viewtopic/t158231/search.php?keywords=% ... +airway%22


Den

.
Excellent. Thanks. How could I have forgotten? Much appreciated.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: XT Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: My headgear varies (STILL!)
Resmed S9 with humidifier and in need of the right mask.

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by palerider » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:20 pm

"clear airway" is a term made up by respironics... the rest of the respiratory industry uses the term "central".

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
DeeCPAP
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:32 pm

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by DeeCPAP » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:36 pm

palerider wrote:"clear airway" is a term made up by respironics... the rest of the respiratory industry uses the term "central".
Thanks. Now it makes more sense.

I'm curious as to why would they suddenly appear after never having seen them before. I suspect it's because I reset my max and minimum pressure a couple of months ago, so maybe the maximum pressure is too high (the minimum pressure seems okay). In the graph (I posted it in the first message of this thread) there were about ten clear airways in the last hour (and *only* the last hour).

I've also noticed puffs of air push through my lips when I'm going to sleep.

Thanks

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: XT Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: My headgear varies (STILL!)
Resmed S9 with humidifier and in need of the right mask.

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by JDS74 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:45 am

Sometimes just as the transition between being awake and being asleep occurs, you get one of these. They can also show up when the pressure is high (for you). Noticing one just as you are going to sleep is an indication of the first cause and is nothing to worry about (neither is the second for that matter but reducing the max pressure might be required to control them.)

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

User avatar
DeeCPAP
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:32 pm

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by DeeCPAP » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 am

JDS74 wrote:Sometimes just as the transition between being awake and being asleep occurs, you get one of these. They can also show up when the pressure is high (for you). Noticing one just as you are going to sleep is an indication of the first cause and is nothing to worry about (neither is the second for that matter but reducing the max pressure might be required to control them.)
Thanks. You may be right. Here's a recent chart showing the most clear airways:

https://imgur.com/gallery/VbcoWqK

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: XT Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: My headgear varies (STILL!)
Resmed S9 with humidifier and in need of the right mask.

User avatar
Jas_williams
Posts: 1120
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:12 pm
Location: Somerset UK

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by Jas_williams » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:57 am

I would not be concerned with the CA’s at the moment kind of look like you holding four breath whils rolling over (the one in the middle of the night) I would be more concerned with the amount of leaks going on that needs resolving as it will be reducing the effectiveness of your therapy

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Using sleepyhead and a pressure of 6 - 21 Resmed S9 Adapt SV with a Bleep Sleep Mask

User avatar
DeeCPAP
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:32 pm

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by DeeCPAP » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:33 am

Jas_williams wrote:I would not be concerned with the CA’s at the moment kind of look like you holding four breath whils rolling over (the one in the middle of the night) I would be more concerned with the amount of leaks going on that needs resolving as it will be reducing the effectiveness of your therapy
Thanks for the reassurance on the CA's. I really am worried about the leaks. Sometimes it's a percentage, but at other times it's high. I have no idea why that is, but I've been using the CPAP for years and haven't been able to resolve the leak problem once and for all.

Someone suggested the leaks are caused when I open my mouth during REM sleep, so that's pretty bad because it negates the treatment -- it's like not using the CPAP. Everyone here knows how important it is to use! I do know that once I solve the leak problem once and for all, it'll be the first time I'll be getting both REM sleep AND treatment for the apneas. I've been working at this for a VERY long time! <sigh>

Again, thanks for your help!

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: XT Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: My headgear varies (STILL!)
Resmed S9 with humidifier and in need of the right mask.

ajack
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:54 am
Location: australia

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by ajack » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:01 am

try a mask that covers the mouth as well, you will see if it fixes stuff.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: S9 ST-A iVAPS and adapt ASV

User avatar
jnk...
Posts: 2988
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:36 pm
Location: New York State

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by jnk... » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:25 am

What is Clear Airway Apnea?

An apnea is detected when there is an 80% reduction in airflow from a baseline for at least 10 seconds if there is no airflow detected for 10 seconds. During the apnea, one or more pressure test pulses are delivered by the device. The device evaluates the response of the patient to the test pulse(s) and assesses whether the apnea has occurred while the patient has a clear airway or an obstructed airway. The airway is determined to be clear if the pressure test pulse generates a significant amount of flow; otherwise the airway is determined to be obstructed. When the airway is clear then a Clear Airway Apnea event is recorded.

-- https://www.mysleepmapper.com/Help/Faq
Personally, I appreciate their honesty with the terminology they use. My preference is to reserve the word "central" for apneas that have manually been scored such based on PSG.
Clinicians also need to be aware that a device-detected apnea identified by the device as having a clear airway is not always a central apnea and a device-detected apnea identified by the device as having an obstructed airway is not necessarily an obstructive apnea. . . . Airway status determined by the PAP device does not distinguish obstructive from central apneas scored by PSG. For example, an obstructed airway was detected in about a third of device-detected apneas that were scored as central apneas on PSG. Although it is not possible to use PSG signals to determine if the pharyngeal airway is clear or obstructed during a central apnea, it is well known that the airway may be closed during this event. Badr et al. used a transnasal fiberoptic scope to view the pharyngeal airway in subjects with sleep apnea during nonrapid eye movement sleep and observed pharyngeal airway collapse during central apneas that were either spontaneous or induced by mechanical hypocapnic hyperventilation. The device uses its airway status determination to decide whether to change pressure delivery. Determination of an obstructed airway, even if it might be a central apnea, warrants an increase in pressure by the device in order to open the airway and allow resumption of airflow. The device classified 13% of the obstructive apneas on PSG as having a clear airway. This may be explained by the different criteria used by the PAP device and manually scored PSG to identify an apnea. The device defines an apnea as at least an 80% reduction from baseline in pneumotach airflow, whereas 2007 AASM criteria for an apnea on PSG require at least a 90% reduction in airflow on oronasal thermistor. However, it can be hypothesized that the pharyngeal airway during an obstructive apnea may open during active expiratory efforts and collapse again on inspiration. Under this circumstance, it is possible that a pressure pulse that occurred during expiration may have resulted in airflow. The device also detected an obstructed airway in about 44.1% of manually scored hypopneas. It is possible that when the narrowed pharyngeal airway has a very high airway resistance, the relatively small pressure pulse generated by the PAP device results in very blunted airflow; a response that the device would identify as an obstructed airway. PAP downloads report the same variables obtained on PSG, including AHI, AI, HI, and RERAI. However, the methods used in PAP devices and PSG to generate these measures differs markedly. Respiratory events detected by the PAP devices are based solely on measurement of airflow. In contrast, multiple signals are used to score respiratory events on PSG, including airflow, arterial oxygen saturation, chest wall movement, and, depending on the scoring criteria, electroencephalographic (EEG)/electromyographic (EMG) arousals. -- https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article- ... .4.597.pdf
-Jeff (AS10/P30i)

Accounts to put on the foe list: Me. I often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

stevezoller
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:12 am

Re: What's a "clear airway" and why does it show up ?

Post by stevezoller » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:37 am

I suspect it's because I reset my max and minimum pressure a couple of months ago, so maybe the maximum pressure is too high (the minimum pressure seems okay).
=========================
I know you’re getting some comments not to worry about the “clear airways/central” apneas. I have two comments to make.

1) The higher pressure you switched to can cause central apneas. You have sensors in your throat that detect high CO2 levels which tell your brain to breathe. If you’re blowing enough air into your lungs, there is never an elevated CO2 level and so no signal to the brain to breathe. I have a huge issue with this and the higher the pressure, the lower my obstructives but the higher my centrals. As I lower the pressure, it helps the centrals put increases the obstructives.

2) A central apnea causes the same health issues as an obstructive apnea. Your blood/brain oxygen level drops and your brain can give you a shot of adrenaline to get you to breathe again. Both are bad news.

So I think you’d be wise to deal with the leaks and then get your pressure optimized to get the lowest possible AHI score.