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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
cchild2
 
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Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby cchild2 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:00 pm

An update from my previous question (thanks everyone for the ideas!)

My issue that was after a month plus of use, my CPAP would continuously ramp up to a high pressure that would wake me up and make it hard to initially fall asleep or fall back to sleep. Every time I would wash the larger filter and replace the disposable filter, the machine would work great for 2-3 days then have the same issue.

I confirmed the filters were getting clogged by thumb-measuring the air FLOW rate at the end of the tube. It would be:

no filters - high flow rate
Larger filter only - high, but not as much
Larger+new disposable - high, but not as much
Larger+3 day old disposable - very low flow rate

The same pattern was evident if I set the pressure at 6 cm or 16 cm.

The troubleshooting person at the DME provider asked if I was using a separate humidifier or space heater in the bedroom. Indeed, we recently started using both - about the same time I started having issues. So I decided to do an experiment where we would only use the space heater OR the humidifier until the filter gets clogged, to see if one of these is the problem.

We stopped using my wife's humidifier and so far I have used the same filter for 5 nights and no issues so far. The flow rate is still strong. Once this experiment is over, we'll use the humidifier but not the space heater.

Two questions for y'all:

1) Does anyone else use a humidifier for their spouse and do they find the humid air causing issues for your filter? Perhaps we need to position it better.

2) The disposable air filters are cheap, but why can't we wash them? Is the mesh very tight and it uses electrostatic forces to remove the small particles so washing could be difficult or make their re-use not as effective? More out of curiosity, since they are cheap.

In summary, this is what I think my problem is. Wife's humidifier would cause the filter to clog quickly --> greatly reduce the flow rate --> (((causing many VS/VS2/snoring events (while awake!) as seen on Sleepyhead))) --> the CPAP continuously increasing my pressure --> high pressure causing leaks and general discomfort along with the low flow rate causing the mask to deflate during inhalation and inflate during exhalation --> inability to fall asleep --> both unconsciously removing mask during the night or consciously turning off the machine.

Regarding the inflation/deflation - when the machine is performing great, I can't tell it is on and sometimes have to check the mask vent to see if air is escaping. When the flow rate is low. the soft silicone cushion on my Amara View moves as it inflates/deflates with my breathing, waking me up.

Thanks everyone!

I'll give an update after my experiments are finished!

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LSAT
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby LSAT on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:17 pm

My wife uses a humidifier about 6 months of the year for rhinitis. I set my CPAP humidifier at 2 during this time of the year. I change my filter at 6 months and it looks like new. Now I know that the temperature, humidity, air quality etc is different in various parts of the country, but...changing the filter every 5 days????
you haven't said where you are located, what machine or pressure you are using so it's hard to make guesses as to the problem.

Update.....I looked back at a previous post and noted that your machine is set with a minimum pressure setting of 4 with a 95% figure of 16....To me, that's your problem. Your minimum should be in the neighborhood of 10-12.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: S9 Autoset...APAP Settings 11-15

Back up mask is another Quattro FF and an F20
Buckwheat Hull Pillow (CPAPfit) from http://www.pur-sleep.com/

cchild2
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby cchild2 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:30 pm

LSAT - good point. Here are my initial two posts (one in another forum, hopefully it is OK to post here!):

viewtopic/t157669/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157419&p=1208294#p1208294
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread ... m-baseline

I'm in the northeast, an hour outside of Philly (go Eagles!).

Since I was given the manual from the forum, I have been playing around with my pressures. 5-12, 6-11. Most likely I will end up at 7-12 or 7-11. What kind of range do you guys use? 4 cm range? As an engineer, love sleepyhead...

jim22
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby jim22 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:38 pm

What type of humidifier is it, and what do you use for water in it? We have Very hard water, and an ultrasonic humidifier makes a lot of very fine dust. If that's what you have the dust could be clogging the filters. We use a humidifier with a heater instead and don't see the dust.
Jim

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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: PR System One 50 Series Heated Humidifier
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Soothest Sleep
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Soothest Sleep on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:27 am

cchild2 wrote:2) The disposable air filters are cheap, but why can't we wash them? Is the mesh very tight and it uses electrostatic forces to remove the small particles so washing could be difficult or make their re-use not as effective? More out of curiosity, since they are cheap.


The disposable filters are made with blended synthetic fiber (User Manual, page 26). Likely they would be destroyed if washed.

Jean
O soft embalmer of the still midnight,
Shutting, with careful fingers and benign,
Our gloom-pleas'd eyes, embower'd from the light,
Enshaded in forgetfulness divine
-- John Keats

herefishy
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby herefishy on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:53 pm

Don't know if you caught that about the ultrasonic humidifier - the dust from that thing would clog a camel's nose. If that's what you are using, try switching to a regular water type humidifier. We've used one for years with no problems.

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Goofproof
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Goofproof on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:07 pm

herefishy wrote:Don't know if you caught that about the ultrasonic humidifier - the dust from that thing would clog a camel's nose. If that's what you are using, try switching to a regular water type humidifier. We've used one for years with no problems.


Or use distilled water, like you are supposed to. Jim

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Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
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Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even.

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby chunkyfrog on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:20 pm

With ultrasonic humidifiers, tap water can make the unit unusable in a remarkably short time,
simply due to the build-up of calcium on the ultrasonic element.
When I used one at work, I used distilled water only, and no problems at all.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

jim22
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby jim22 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm

I use distilled in the CPAP humidifier, but never tried it in the room humidifiers. I suspect that would get very expensive to run, many dollars a week.

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Goofproof
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Goofproof on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 pm

jim22 wrote:I use distilled in the CPAP humidifier, but never tried it in the room humidifiers. I suspect that would get very expensive to run, many dollars a week.


Maybe they make smarter humidifiers that only provide the amount you need. You could make your own distilled water. Jim

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP @15 CM & CMS 50E PULSE OX O2 3L
Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even.

cchild2
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby cchild2 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:35 am

Thanks everyone for your replies.

8 days now with no issues, so it is strongly pointing to the separate ultrasonic humidifier being the issue. We do not have a water softener and had used tap water in it.

I'm looking at two options - buying a non-ultrasonic humidifier for the wife or buying a small water distiller to make water for both CPAP and humidifier.

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Cpapian
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Cpapian on Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:40 am

cchild2 wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies.


I'm looking at two options - buying a non-ultrasonic humidifier for the wife or buying a small water distiller to make water for both CPAP and humidifier.


I was looking at home water distillers. They seem to run at an hour of electricity for a litre of water. Like running the kettle for an hour. Was wondering if the electricity might be more expensive. Walmart sells distilled water 4 litres for $0.99.

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Goofproof
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Goofproof on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:34 pm

Cpapian wrote:
cchild2 wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies.


I'm looking at two options - buying a non-ultrasonic humidifier for the wife or buying a small water distiller to make water for both CPAP and humidifier.


I was looking at home water distillers. They seem to run at an hour of electricity for a litre of water. Like running the kettle for an hour. Was wondering if the electricity might be more expensive. Walmart sells distilled water 4 litres for $0.99.


How much is your time and auto costs, Yes you use electric, but no gas, and little time. Jim

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP @15 CM & CMS 50E PULSE OX O2 3L
Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even.

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby chunkyfrog on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:05 pm

I use an electric distiller, and a Kill-o-Watt meter.
Home distlling costs well under 15 cents a gallon here--even at summer rates.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

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Cpapian
 
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Re: Update-clogged filters --> high pressure -wife's humidifier?

Postby Cpapian on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:40 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:I use an electric distiller, and a Kill-o-Watt meter.
Home distlling costs well under 15 cents a gallon here--even at summer rates.


Winter off-peak rates here (Toronto) are 6.5 cents per kilowatt hour. How many kWh does a distiller typically use to distill a gallon? What brand of machine do you use?

I must admit I hate having to go out to get distilled water. That is why my husband bought 16 bottles last time.

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