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mangos21
 
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How does an ASV work?

Postby mangos21 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 pm

just curious how an ASV actually works. I’ve read that it’s for complex sleep apnea and krakow recommends it for UARS patients. But what exactly does it do? How’s it different than an auto pap?

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby Guest on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:35 pm

mangos21 wrote:just curious how an ASV actually works. I’ve read that it’s for complex sleep apnea and krakow recommends it for UARS patients. But what exactly does it do? How’s it different than an auto pap?


Do a Google search on "Adaptive servo-ventilation" and start reading.

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby mangos21 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:55 pm

Haha I watched a YouTube video which explained it. So it’s basicaly a bipap that adjusts pressures on the basis of an algorithm.

Scoopedfrom another post...

An ASV is a different beast. It adjusts pressures, but instead of watching events like an auto machine to decide what pressure levels, it watches the breathing pattern and volumes. It adjusts pressures each breath as it happens. It doesn't have to wait for an event to happen and then down the road increase it - it'll increase it as it notices your breath isn't "deep" enough, or an abnormal breath pattern is happening. It also has a backup rate like the ST for if you stop breathing, like the BiPAP ST.

Thanks

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:23 pm

mangos21 wrote:just curious how an ASV actually works. I’ve read that it’s for complex sleep apnea and krakow recommends it for UARS patients. But what exactly does it do? How’s it different than an auto pap?

=======

there are two
resmed and philips

they are similar but different

basically they are bipaps with a backup rate to keep air moving if you stop because of centrals

they have different algorithms and details of how they determine things and even the shape of the air they blow at you
resmed is supposed to follow your breathing and not force you unless they declare a central event then it moves to 15 RR and most recently averaged Vt

the resmed has 4 settings

epapmin = peep = baseline

psmin adds to epapmin to give ipapmin

psmax adds to epap min to give ipapmax limited by 25 the machine limit

epapmax floats above epapmin and up to smaller of 15 or epapmax setting that is lower than 15
this floats when the machine determines you need more pressure to keep the airway open

now you can set it also in plain cpap mode or cpap with EPR
or you can rig the settings to look like a bipap with larger possible EPR if desired

the resmed and philips manuals give a more detailed explanation of what they do and how
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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:26 pm

mangos21 wrote:Haha I watched a YouTube video which explained it. So it’s basicaly a bipap that adjusts pressures on the basis of an algorithm.

Scoopedfrom another post...

An ASV is a different beast. It adjusts pressures, but instead of watching events like an auto machine to decide what pressure levels, it watches the breathing pattern and volumes. It adjusts pressures each breath as it happens. It doesn't have to wait for an event to happen and then down the road increase it - it'll increase it as it notices your breath isn't "deep" enough, or an abnormal breath pattern is happening. It also has a backup rate like the ST for if you stop breathing, like the BiPAP ST.

Thanks


=========

it uses the recent average to make adjustments from so while technically it is breath by breath it is not drastic between breaths but a mild slow change to match what you are doing

it will adjust to your breathing pattern as it goes breath by breath not at a fixed rate unless it declares central then resmed defaults to 15 and philips to recent RR average minus two
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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby palerider on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:33 pm

mangos21 wrote:Haha I watched a YouTube video which explained it. So it’s basicaly a bipap that adjusts pressures on the basis of an algorithm.


It's a bilevel that adjusts pressures *ON EVERY BREATH* on the basis of an algorithm. Other bilevels do it over a period of minutes.

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:27 am

palerider wrote:
mangos21 wrote:Haha I watched a YouTube video which explained it. So it’s basicaly a bipap that adjusts pressures on the basis of an algorithm.


It's a bilevel that adjusts pressures *ON EVERY BREATH* on the basis of an algorithm. Other bilevels do it over a period of minutes.

=======

semantics

it may do it every breath but the amount is very small as it looks at a 4 minute average
dropping off one breath and looking at the new average may or may not cause a change depending on the difference with the current breath
and that change will be relatively small because it does look at the past history not just the one breath
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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby bwexler on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:28 pm

Assuming everything already said is correct they work very well once you convince them who's boss.
When I first started on ASV the machine and I could not agree on weather I should be inhaling or exhaling. After a couple of months we seemed to come to some sort of mutual agreement. So now it is very rare for us to disagree.

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:33 pm

bwexler wrote:Assuming everything already said is correct they work very well once you convince them who's boss.
When I first started on ASV the machine and I could not agree on weather I should be inhaling or exhaling. After a couple of months we seemed to come to some sort of mutual agreement. So now it is very rare for us to disagree.

=====

my ASV seemed to have some sort of long term AI learning ability

the plain bipap took much longer for us to coexist and we never did declare a truce
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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby mangos21 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:07 am

Does an ASV respond to UARS events? APAP did not respond to mine so I'm curious. I have an asv I found for $1000 bucks off craigslist and I want to use it, but not really sure how. trying to decide if I should shell out the dough to see Krakow or just try to titrate myself on this complicated machine.

it seems Krakow is kinda hit or miss.. I've read a couple users (lostsheep, patrissimo) having success after his titrations, but others have not. I've tried a range of cpap and bipap pressures without any success. there isn't any useful data being recorded since the machines don't pick up my events. figure asv is my last shot before I consider surgery or starve myself.

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby mangos21 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:30 am

also, any difference between respironics ASVs and resmed ASVs? Krakow seems to exclusively rx resmed's

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:54 am

mangos21 wrote:Does an ASV respond to UARS events? APAP did not respond to mine so I'm curious. I have an asv I found for $1000 bucks off craigslist and I want to use it, but not really sure how. trying to decide if I should shell out the dough to see Krakow or just try to titrate myself on this complicated machine.

it seems Krakow is kinda hit or miss.. I've read a couple users (lostsheep, patrissimo) having success after his titrations, but others have not. I've tried a range of cpap and bipap pressures without any success. there isn't any useful data being recorded since the machines don't pick up my events. figure asv is my last shot before I consider surgery or starve myself.

======

what is a UARs event ??

my ASV does not know about RERA UARs RDI or other things
the ASV is just a bipap with a back up rate in case you stop breathing due to centrals

the ASV responds to maintain flow at your normal rate
UARs is mostly mumbo jumbo theory right now and unlikely to respond to yet more pressure

ASV self titrates
the machine is not that complicated

surgery would be a major mistake

getting your weight down is always a good idea
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby Guest on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 pm

xxyzx wrote:ASV self titrates
the machine is not that complicated


Plain and stupid bullshit.

mangos21
 
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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby mangos21 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:20 pm

xxyzx wrote:
mangos21 wrote:Does an ASV respond to UARS events? APAP did not respond to mine so I'm curious. I have an asv I found for $1000 bucks off craigslist and I want to use it, but not really sure how. trying to decide if I should shell out the dough to see Krakow or just try to titrate myself on this complicated machine.

it seems Krakow is kinda hit or miss.. I've read a couple users (lostsheep, patrissimo) having success after his titrations, but others have not. I've tried a range of cpap and bipap pressures without any success. there isn't any useful data being recorded since the machines don't pick up my events. figure asv is my last shot before I consider surgery or starve myself.

======

what is a UARs event ??

my ASV does not know about RERA UARs RDI or other things
the ASV is just a bipap with a back up rate in case you stop breathing due to centrals

the ASV responds to maintain flow at your normal rate
UARs is mostly mumbo jumbo theory right now and unlikely to respond to yet more pressure

ASV self titrates
the machine is not that complicated

surgery would be a major mistake

getting your weight down is always a good idea




the 'events' on my study mostly went into the spontaneous arousal category. however, i'm confident that they are due to sleep disordered breathing. I did get straight PAP to work for me when i simultaneously took a medication called clonidine, which lowers sympathetic activity in the brain. when using PAP plus the pill together (each intervention on its own did nothing) it quite literally eliminated all of my symptoms and i slept through the night. i woke up refreshed with energy. nocturia episodes disappeared as well. best sleep i've had in my life. it was like a fire ignited deep in my brain. unfortunately i had to get off the medication prior to a surgical procedure, and now for some reason it doesn't work anymore.

i might try prazosin next but i'm not hopeful about it.

since then i've had a tonsillectomy which helped a bit, and a septoplasty which did nothing.

i really want pap therapy to work, i'm compliant and have no issues with it.

the user named GreenSleeper in this thread describes his experience with xpap and asv and i'm hopeful i can pull something similar off.

viewtopic/t98357/How-is-UARS-Diagnosed.html

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Re: How does an ASV work?

Postby xxyzx on Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:56 pm

Guest wrote:
xxyzx wrote:ASV self titrates
the machine is not that complicated


Plain and stupid bullshit.

========

you describe yourself perfectly

too bad you dont know crap about how an ASV works

it does self titrate
it is very simple to use

although it may be too complicated for your sawdust brain to grok
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