5 reasons why UARS is harder to treat than apnea

the problem is getting DIAGNOSED in the 1st place - not getting treated!

treatment is easy! CPAP! it works!

xxyzx wrote:http://doctorstevenpark.com/why-uars-is ... leep-apnea

and a long article on UARS by dr park
http://doctorstevenpark.com/sleep-apnea ... e-syndrome

Just effing great - I sure have a lot of the indicators for UARS. I see an ENT next week so maybe something will be found then.

I have yet to even be able to give CPAP a decent try, and now that is just a shot in the dark. 3 weeks of excruciating pain followed by 3-6 months of PT - all caused mostly by something that may not even help my 30 disturbances, 10 RERAs and 4 awakenings every hour.

>.<

xxyzx wrote:

Guest wrote:
treatment is easy! CPAP! it works!

======

not according to teh doctors and sleep clinics

cpap might work or might not do much at all

it is the last treatment option according to the links i found for sleep doctors and sleep clinics
and is not a guaranteed fix

if you disagree tell the doctors and sleep clinics

I don't quite understand why, if looking at these two articles, you say it's the last treatment option. I didn't find that in the articles. I did find this...

"I just gave you a good explanation for UARS, but what can you DO about it? In general, UARS is treated like sleep apnea. In general, the options are nasal breathing optimization, dental appliances, CPAP, or surgery, as a last resort....CPAP, or Continuous Positive Airway Pressure, is actually the gold standard treatment for sleep apnea. In the original article that described UARS, CPAP was used successfully in many of these patients." http://doctorstevenpark.com/sleep-apnea ... e-syndrome

CPAP is not listed last; surgery is. And it appears to me that treatment possibilities are listed with the most conservative treatment first and so on to the least conservative, which is surgery. I didn't take it that the order was from most effective to least effective, so I don't see this statement is saying CPAP is the last treatment option or not very effective.

Also, in the links you provided, I did not see any definitive statement that "cpap might work or might not do much at all." The closest statement I found was where Dr. Parks stated "...CPAP was used successfully in many of these patients," rather than saying "all." And there could be several reasons for that including the statement he made about a patient that "tried CPAP but couldn’t tolerate the mask," which isn't a failure of CPAP treatment, but a failure of the patient being able to tolerate CPAP due to the mask. Dr. Parks also stated, "UARS is a treatable condition."

UARS can apparently be difficult to get diagnosed due to some physicians (or maybe many) not paying it the attention it deserves. It can sometimes be difficult to get insurance to pay for a machine if a patient doesn't also have an AHI of over 5. But, Xxyzx, am I missing something else in the articles that says what you stated above? Since my major issue at my sleep study was UARS, I'm very interested in this subject.

I had an AHI of 7 and an RDI of 19. The RDI includes UARS. Apparently, I'm very fortunate that my original sleep doc (and my current one) recognize and treat for UARS, as it sounds like a lot of physicians don't pay it nearly as much attention as they should.

MaxINTJ wrote: Just effing great - I sure have a lot of the indicators for UARS. I see an ENT next week so maybe something will be found then.

I have yet to even be able to give CPAP a decent try, and now that is just a shot in the dark. 3 weeks of excruciating pain followed by 3-6 months of PT - all caused mostly by something that may not even help my 30 disturbances, 10 RERAs and 4 awakenings every hour.

Which is why I have harped on ....find out for sure if UARS is even for sure what is going on with you before you do anything at all with the mask and cpap.
There are ways to find out for sure...it's not like it is totally impossible to know for sure.
It's not easy .... but not impossible to find out for sure.
UARS is not the only possible explanation for your crappy sleep ...as much as you would like for it to be.

I have a metal plate in my neck. I have a dead person's bones in my neck. I know what it is like to have neck problems for well over 30 years...no way in hell would I risk more problems with my neck unless there was absolutely no other choice. Even now using the cpap and the mask (because there is no other viable alternative for me) I take special care with my neck and my bed pillow and my sleeping position.
You don't even know for sure that UARS is the problem and we both know that OSA is NOT the problem.
Do the work necessary to find out for sure if UARS is the culprit.

Pugsy wrote:
I have a metal plate in my neck. I have a dead person's bones in my neck. I know what it is like to have neck problems for well over 30 years...no way in hell would I risk more problems with my neck unless there was absolutely no other choice. Even now using the cpap and the mask (because there is no other viable alternative for me) I take special care with my neck and my bed pillow and my sleeping position.

Wow, Pugsy, and I thought my neck problems were bad. I have cervical DDD and at least one bone spur. Horrible headaches, neck pain, and upper back pain, all on the left side, and tingling down my left arm, when I'm in a flare. But other times it's not that big of a deal. And like you, I do everything I can to avoid setting it off. (Also have lumbar herniations that can cause problems in my left hip and thigh, but it's definitely not an everyday thing.) I've been able to avoid surgery with the help of a chiropractor for the lumber issue and PT twice when I had bad flares with my neck a couple of years apart.

Pugsy wrote:
Which is why I have harped on ....find out for sure if UARS is even for sure what is going on with you before you do anything at all with the mask and cpap.
There are ways to find out for sure...it's not like it is totally impossible to know for sure.
It's not easy .... but not impossible to find out for sure.
UARS is not the only possible explanation for your crappy sleep ...as much as you would like for it to be.

Do the work necessary to find out for sure if UARS is the culprit.

Actually, I don't want to to be OSA or UARS - I want it to be something EASILY treatable that doesn't screw up any other part of my body!

The problem is going to be getting it diagnosed. From what I read. my numbers from the sleep study indicate UARS and I am seeing an ENT next week. If they find anything it's going to mean a very invasive and painful surgery with a long recovery. After reading the links, OSA is by far the easier treated.

My understanding is that anyone with sleep apnea has UARS.

although it is slightly more complicated, you can break it down to this:
sleep apnea means: you stop breathing in the night, your SPO2 drops and you experience desaturation events --> this leads to arousals
UARS: you experience NO desaturations, your SPO2 values are always in the green! even small obstructions or drops in the flowrate lead to an (early) arousal.

in toher words: with UARS you get no quality sleep due to the arousals - nothing more! with OSA you experience arousals too, but more importantly you experience epsiodes of desaturation, which results in completely different complications.

UARS can turn into OSA - fastest way is: gain a lot of weight. (last resort for some, if they can't find doctors which are willing or able to make the proper diagnosis)

Guest wrote:although it is slightly more complicated, you can break it down to this:
sleep apnea means: you stop breathing in the night, your SPO2 drops and you experience desaturation events --> this leads to arousals
UARS: you experience NO desaturations, your SPO2 values are always in the green! even small obstructions or drops in the flowrate lead to an (early) arousal.

in toher words: with UARS you get no quality sleep due to the arousals - nothing more! with OSA you experience arousals too, but more importantly you experience epsiodes of desaturation, which results in completely different complications.

In my case I do get desaturations as well - not as much as those with OSA, but they are there.

Yes, OSA can be the end result of UARS - especially as you said if you gain weight, but in the mean time, UARS sufferers get all the bad effects of OSA with less treatment success. The end result is the same in both cases - a boatload of health problems from being unable to sleep soundly.

xxyzx wrote:big bigger biggest air blockage:

uars hypop apnea

that is wrong!
UARS is the disease where your breathing center (in the brain / your nerves) is over-reacting - so it makes and sees problems, where simply there are none!

before a hypopnea comes flowlimitations ... and somewhere around / between that are RERAs

Guest wrote:

xxyzx wrote:big bigger biggest air blockage:

uars hypop apnea

that is wrong!
UARS is the disease where your breathing center (in the brain / your nerves) is over-reacting - so it makes and sees problems, where simply there are none!

before a hypopnea comes flowlimitations ... and somewhere around / between that are RERAs

From personal experience, this is true. Perhaps for some it is a blocked airway. But mine is less about blocked airway (a small amount) and more about an over reactive braining responding to a very tiny blockage that should be ignored. uars is far from an exact science and one size does not fit all. hopefully more research dollars will be deployed to better understand uars.

oh dear ... where to start here.

of course the culprit with UARS are flowlimitations - otherwise CPAP would not help.
you said - and I quote:

xxyzx wrote:big bigger biggest air blockage:

uars hypop apnea

that is and always will be BULLSHIT!
UARS is the disease not the cause! ... I tried to correct your "ordering" ... read up on that!

the flowlimitations that cause the arousals with UARS are in no way an obstruction nor a problem with ventilation. (remember: UARS = no desaturations!)
It is the breathing center switching to panic mode long before there is (or ever could be) a problem with the ventilation. (which is by the way what is the current view of the doctors and researchers on that topic - at least to my knowledge. I would be surpirsed if the documents linked by you so far on the topic say anything different than that - please really read them, before you drag their names in the shit in an hopeless attempt of justification)

Guest wrote:oh dear ... where to start here.

of course the culprit with UARS are flowlimitations - otherwise CPAP would not help.
you said - and I quote:

xxyzx wrote:big bigger biggest air blockage:

uars hypop apnea

that is and always will be BULLSHIT!
UARS is the disease not the cause! ... I tried to correct your "ordering" ... read up on that!

the flowlimitations that cause the arousals with UARS are in no way an obstruction nor a problem with ventilation. (remember: UARS = no desaturations!)
It is the breathing center switching to panic mode long before there is (or ever could be) a problem with the ventilation. (which is by the way what is the current view of the doctors and researchers on that topic - at least to my knowledge. I would be surpirsed if the documents linked by you so far on the topic say anything different than that - please really read them, before you drag their names in the shit in an hopeless attempt of justification)

The articles he provided links to specifically talk about the narrowing of the airway, causing RESTRICTION and requiring more effort to breath - which then creates other issues.

Guest wrote:oh dear ... where to start here.

of course the culprit with UARS are flowlimitations - otherwise CPAP would not help.
you said - and I quote:

xxyzx wrote:big bigger biggest air blockage:

uars hypop apnea

that is and always will be BULLSHIT!
UARS is the disease not the cause! ... I tried to correct your "ordering" ... read up on that!

the flowlimitations that cause the arousals with UARS are in no way an obstruction nor a problem with ventilation. (remember: UARS = no desaturations!)
It is the breathing center switching to panic mode long before there is (or ever could be) a problem with the ventilation. (which is by the way what is the current view of the doctors and researchers on that topic - at least to my knowledge. I would be surpirsed if the documents linked by you so far on the topic say anything different than that - please really read them, before you drag their names in the shit in an hopeless attempt of justification)

Could you be talking about centrals? I could be mistaken but it sounds to me like your describing centrals rather than uars