the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:03 pm

You need to be researching AVAPS/iVAPS instead of VPAP ASV.

We all know that the older S9 Adapt and it's newer brother the AirCurve 10 ASV are ASV machines. Hell, I even own one.

You looked up the wrong machine. You need to do some more reading.
Here's a starting point for the ResMed products
http://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/pr ... vices.html

The Trilogy isn't ASV ....it's AVAPS Average Volume Assured Pressure Support.

http://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/p ... ventilator

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by palerider » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:47 am

xxyzx wrote:vpap may do more but it is an ASV
No, as usual, you're wrong.

VPAP is a variety of bilevel machines, only ONE of which is an ASV.

36004 S9 "VPAP S" <- not asv
36006 S9 "VPAP Auto" <- not asv
36007 S9 "VPAP Adapt" (older) <- asv
36008 S9 "VPAP ST" (older) <- not asv
36009 S9 "VPAP ST-A" (older) <- not asv, it's an iVAPS
36034 S9 "VPAP COPD" <- not asv
36037 S9 "VPAP Adapt" <- asv
36038 S9 "VPAP ST" <- not asv
36039 S9 "VPAP ST-A" <- not asv it's an iVAPS
36050 S9 "VPAP Tx"<- could be an asv depending on mode set

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Last edited by palerider on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
Madalot
Posts: 4285
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:47 am

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by Madalot » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:19 am

xxyzx wrote:VPAP® Adapt SV and Adaptive Servo-Ventilation - ResMed
http://www.resmed.com/.../1010807_adapt ... ow_eng.pdf
With its advanced Adaptive-Servo Ventilation (ASV) algorithm, the ResMed VPAP Adapt SV provides ventilatory support to rapidly treat all forms of central sleep ...

S9 VPAP Adapt (With ASV) | ResMed
http://www.resmed.com/us/en/commercial- ... -asv-.html


S9 VPAP Adapt | ResMed
http://www.resmed.com/us/en/commercial- ... adapt.html
The S9 VPAP Adapt is an adaptive servo-ventilator (ASV) specifically designed to treat obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), central and/or mixed apneas, or periodic ...

vpap may do more but it is an ASV
The last thing I want to do is "pile on" and act like a bully towards you. It's truly not my style.

But you have your "facts" all skewed and as others have pointed out, you're not even researching the right stuff.

AVAPS - a mode on the Trilogy (and a separate machine), is totally different than VPAP or VPAP Adapt.

The differences have been explained to you over and over again but you are bound and determined to try to prove you're right - which you can't because you're not.

You're being stubborn, obtuse and obnoxious about this. Man up and admit you are wrong and we can all move on. But stop trying to prove that an and ASV and AVAPS are the same thing. Stop being what you claim everyone else is. "That" name that refuses to use logic or listen to facts. Because trust me, honey - that's you on this one.

_________________
Mask: FlexiFit HC431 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: HC150 Heated Humidifier With Hose, 2 Chambers and Stand
Additional Comments: Trilogy 100. S/T AVAPS, IPAP 18-23, EPAP 10, BPM 7

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13229
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by LSAT » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:32 am

palerider wrote:
xxyzx wrote:vpap may do more but it is an ASV
No, as usual, you're wrong.

VPAP is a variety of bilevel machines, only ONE of which is an ASV.

36004 S9 "VPAP S" <- not asv
36006 S9 "VPAP Auto" <- not asv
36007 S9 "VPAP Adapt" (older) <- asv
36008 S9 "VPAP ST" (older) <- not asv
36009 S9 "VPAP ST-A" (older) <- not asv
36034 S9 "VPAP COPD" <- not asv
36037 S9 "VPAP Adapt" <- asv
36038 S9 "VPAP ST" <- not asv
36039 S9 "VPAP ST-A" <- not asv
36050 S9 "VPAP Tx"<- could be an asv depending on mode set

He can't be wrong....he's a brilliant engineer

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: Back up is S9 Autoset...... Buckwheat hull pillow

User avatar
raisedfist
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:21 am

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by raisedfist » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:49 am

No lol. A VPAP S is literally just a plain bi-level where you set a static IPAP and lower EPAP. A VPAP ST is simply a bi-level with the option to add a backup rate in the case of central apnea/muscle weakness/failure to maintain adequate respiratory rate. Neither of those devices target your actual ventilation within a 5 minute window and adjust accordingly to maintain a steady minute ventilation. Neither of these devices will adjust in any way during the night - you set it and forget it. Neither is designed to treat complex apnea or periodic breathing.

This is how an ASV works:

"By ventilating the patient appropriately during periods of hypopnea and apnea and reducing support during periods of hyperventilation and normal breathing,the ASV algorithm rapidly stabilizes breathing patterns and arterial blood gases and minimizes discomfort and arousals often associated with bilevel treatment."

Further, How ASV machines work:

"Whenever the ASV machine detects abnormalities in breathing, it intervenes with just enough support to maintain the patient's breathing at 90% of what had been normal for that patient prior to the abrupt change in breathing."

This would be wholly inadequate for someone suffering from respiratory insufficiency. During a period of hypoventilation, instead of raising pressure support to increase ventilation, the ASV could actually lower pressure support slightly to target 90%, instead of say needed a 30% increase in ventilation, of that last window of time measured before the machine detected "abnormal breathing".

If this occurred to a patient who needs (A)VAPS such as Madalot, there would often be times where she would be under ventilated. Even small unwanted increases of CO2 during sleep from someone suffering from respiratory disease can have disastrous consequences, especially when it happens night after night. Her breathing is subnormal during sleep, hence the purpose of VAPS which is to take this into account and maintain a targeted ventilation (say, match the same amount of ventilation that occurs normally for her during the day when breathing is normal - usually target Vt is set at 110% or 8mL/Kg) that prevents hypoventilation from occurring.


Two machines designed for entirely different purposes and target populations cannot be the same thing no matter how long you refuse to acknowledge it.

_________________
Mask
Philips Respironics Trilogy 100
AVAPS-AE Mode
PS Min 6, PS Max 18, EPAP Min 4, EPAP Max 12

User avatar
Okie bipap
Posts: 3550
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:14 pm
Location: Central Oklahoma

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by Okie bipap » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:12 am

[quote="LSAT"He can't be wrong....he's a brilliant engineer [/quote]

Obviously an unemployed one. He is able to post all day and night every day of the week. Prior to retiring, I could only respond after I got home at night or on week ends.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Evora Full Face Mask - Fitpack
Additional Comments: IPAP 20-25, ps 4, OSCAR software
Growing old is mandatory, but growing up is optional.

User avatar
robysue
Posts: 7520
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY
Contact:

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by robysue » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:42 am

RE-EDITED to include palerider's corrections. Thanks for posting them!

And editing palerider's list to include information about the Resmed iVAPS mode, which is the one that is equivalent to PR's AVAPS mode
palerider wrote: VPAP is a variety of bilevel machines, only ONE of which is an ASV.

36004 S9 "VPAP S" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36006 S9 "VPAP Auto" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36007 S9 "VPAP Adapt" (older) <- asv and not iVAPS
36008 S9 "VPAP ST" (older) <- not asv and not iVAPS
36009 S9 "VPAP ST-A" (older) <- not asv and iVAPS
36034 S9 "VPAP COPD" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36037 S9 "VPAP Adapt" <- asv and not iVAPS
36038 S9 "VPAP ST" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36039 S9 "VPAP ST-A" <- not asv and iVAPS
36050 S9 "VPAP Tx"<- could be an asv and could be an iVAPS depending on mode set
So the upshot is:

Resmed VPAP can mean anything from fixed bilevel that does nothing else (VPAP S) to a lab titration machine (VPAP Tx) or anything in-between.

But the non-titration VPAPs fall into three broad categories:

Those that do NEITHER ASV or iVAPS: VPAP S, VPAP Auto, VPAP ST, VPAP COPD

Those that do ASV, but do NOT do iVAPS: VPAP ST Adapt

Those that do iVAPS, but do NOT do ASV: VPAP ST with iVAPS*, VPAP ST-A

It appears that the VPAP ST with iVAPS is the name of the iVAPS machine in selected countries, but I have not found the model number. See http://www.resmed.com/epn/en/commercial ... ivaps.html for details

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5
Last edited by robysue on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34378
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:16 am

No wonder x's providers are not following his orders---
They think he is nutz-x.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by palerider » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:21 pm

robysue wrote:And editing palerider's list to include information about the Resmed iVAPS mode, which is the one that is equivalent to PR's AVAPS mode
palerider wrote: VPAP is a variety of bilevel machines, only ONE of which is an ASV.

36004 S9 "VPAP S" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36006 S9 "VPAP Auto" <- not asv and not iVAPS
36007 S9 "VPAP Adapt" (older) <- asv and not iVAPS
36008 S9 "VPAP ST" (older) <- not asv and not iVAPS unless it say ST with iVAPS
36009 S9 "VPAP ST-A" (older) <- not asv and iVAPS
36034 S9 "VPAP COPD" <- not asv and probably not iVAPS (can't tell for sure)
36037 S9 "VPAP Adapt" <- asv and not iVAPS
36038 S9 "VPAP ST" <- not asv and not iVAPS unless it say ST with iVAPS
36039 S9 "VPAP ST-A" <- not asv and iVAPS
36050 S9 "VPAP Tx"<- could be an asv and could be an iVAPS depending on mode set
So the upshot is:

Resmed VPAP can mean anything from fixed bilevel that does nothing else (VPAP S) to a lab titration machine (VPAP Tx) or anything in-between.

But the non-titration VPAPs fall into three broad categories:

Those that do NEITHER ASV or iVAPS: VPAP S, VPAP Auto, and some of the VPAP ST (unlabeled) models.

Those that do ASV, but do NOT do iVAPS: VPAP ST Adapt

Those that do iVAPS, but do NOT do ASV: VPAP ST with iVAPS, VPAP ST-A

It's not clear to me whether the VPAP COPD has iVAPS not not. So it's not clear which of these three lists that machine belongs on.
Clarification:
The 36008 and 36038 are purely S and T modes, no ivaps.
The only machines with iVAPS are the 36009 and 36039 and 36050 (which has every mode).
The 36034 (COPD) is a 36004 S model with pre-set trigger/cycle/TiMin/TiMax settings that are generically more suited to COPD treatment, a max pressure of 30cm/H2O and an alarm module.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
robysue
Posts: 7520
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY
Contact:

Re: the vendors respond: VPAP *IS* an ASV

Post by robysue » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:32 pm

palerider wrote: Clarification:
The 36008 and 36038 are purely S and T modes, no ivaps.
The only machines with iVAPS are the 36009 and 36039 and 36050 (which has every mode).
The 36034 (COPD) is a 36004 S model with pre-set trigger/cycle/TiMin/TiMax settings that are generically more suited to COPD treatment, a max pressure of 30cm/H2O and an alarm module.
Thanks for clarifying this. I'll correct my post right now.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5