The Truth Wears Off

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Mike6977
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The Truth Wears Off

Post by Mike6977 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:34 pm

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The Truth Wears Off

Is there something wrong with the scientific method?

by Jonah Lehrer, The New Yorker Magazine


On September 18, 2007, a few dozen neuroscientists, psychiatrists, and drug-company executives gathered in a hotel conference room in Brussels to hear some startling news. It had to do with a class of drugs known as atypical or second-generation antipsychotics, which came on the market in the early nineties. The drugs, sold under brand names such as Abilify, Seroquel, and Zyprexa, had been tested on schizophrenics in several large clinical trials, all of which had demonstrated a dramatic decrease in the subjects’ psychiatric symptoms. As a result, second-generation antipsychotics had become one of the fastest-growing and most profitable pharmaceutical classes. By 2001, Eli Lilly’s Zyprexa was generating more revenue than Prozac. It remains the company’s top-selling drug.

But the data presented at the Brussels meeting made it clear that something strange was happening: the therapeutic power of the drugs appeared to be steadily waning. A recent study showed an effect that was less than half of that documented in the first trials, in the early nineteen-nineties. Many researchers began to argue that the expensive pharmaceuticals weren’t any better than first-generation antipsychotics, which have been in use since the fifties. “In fact, sometimes they now look even worse,” John Davis, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Illinois at Chicago, told me.

Before the effectiveness of a drug can be confirmed, it must be tested and tested again. Different scientists in different labs need to repeat the protocols and publish their results. The test of replicability, as it’s known, is the foundation of modern research. Replicability is how the community enforces itself. It’s a safeguard for the creep of subjectivity. Most of the time, scientists know what results they want, and that can influence the results they get. The premise of replicability is that the scientific community can correct for these flaws.

But now all sorts of well-established, multiply confirmed findings have started to look increasingly uncertain. It’s as if our facts were losing their truth: claims that have been enshrined in textbooks are suddenly unprovable. This phenomenon doesn’t yet have an official name, but it’s occurring across a wide range of fields, from psychology to ecology. In the field of medicine, the phenomenon seems extremely widespread, affecting not only antipsychotics but also therapies ranging from cardiac stents to Vitamin E and antidepressants . . .

Continued at:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... act_lehrer
Last edited by Mike6977 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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archangle
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by archangle » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:46 pm

Hey, the Saints won the Super Bowl. Obviously the structure of reality is unraveling.

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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by DocWeezy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:38 am

No, there is nothing wrong with the scientific method IF it is done rigorously and honestly. However, there is often something wrong with a researcher's conclusions based on his/her findings. Conclusions can be swayed by politics, a need to have a conclusion that meets the "accepted" idea of truth, etc. Often the actual findings show something quite different than the conclusions, but it is the conclusions that are discussed and that find their way into the media. Most research is driven by grants, and grants are usually only given to those who are researching what is currently acceptable or popular--even government grants are more driven by political correctness than true science.

My first thought about the "decline effect" is that it is simply a case of the initial research was an anomaly. Lack of replication results doesn't necessarily mean that any effect is declining. If a study's results can't be replicated it probably means that the first study was flawed in some way. It could also mean that the sample was unusual, and when replicated using other samples from other populations the true results begin to show--which may conflict with or negate the original conclusions. Academia is rife with examples where a researcher has made their career based on one or two studies that were inclusive or flawed. Unfortunately, the hype often overshadows the truly good research being done, and findings that dispute the popular hype are relegated to the shadows or ignored completely because they go against what is known as "truth."

Gary Taubes' book, "Good Calories, Bad Calories" clearly illustrates this time and time again and is the best collection I've ever seen of how research findings can morph into popular belief and become "truth." Your mouth will drop open more than once--especially if you go look up the original studies and confirm that what Taubes wrote is factual (I did--I'm skeptical).


Weezy

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Mike6977
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Mike6977 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:28 pm

archangle wrote:Hey, the Saints won the Super Bowl. Obviously the structure of reality is unraveling.


For me, the tipping point was the gargantuan success of Lady Gaga.


DocWeezy wrote:No, there is nothing wrong with the scientific method IF it is done rigorously and honestly.
Even if research is done rigorously and honestly, it's still conducted by human beings, and thus subject to a number of unconscious biases.

1) Publication Bias: the tendency of scientists and scientific journals to prefer positive data over null results.

2) Perception Bias: scientists (unconsciously) find ways to confirm their preferred hypothesis, disregarding what they don’t want to see. Their beliefs are a form of blindness.

3) Significance Chasing: or finding ways to interpret the data so that it passes the statistical test of significance—the ninety-five-per-cent boundary invented by Ronald Fisher.

The problem of selective reporting is rooted in a fundamental cognitive flaw, which is that we like proving ourselves right and hate being wrong.

4) Finally, scientific research will always be shadowed by a force that can’t be curbed, only contained: sheer randomness.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


As this article succinctly concluded:


"The decline effect is troubling because it reminds us how difficult it is to prove anything.

We like to pretend that our experiments define the truth for us.

But that’s often not the case.

Just because an idea is true doesn’t mean it can be proved.

And just because an idea can be proved doesn’t mean it’s true.

When the experiments are done, we still have to choose what to believe."

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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by jnk » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:20 pm

And who are the "peers" who "review" The New Yorker Magazine?

Science is flawed, but, in my opinion, for most things, conclusions based on its method are less flawed than conclusions made without it.

Along those lines, I like the way Shermer (author of The Believing Brain) put it in Scientific American, since his view happens to be in harmony with my "personal belief bias." :
The Believing Brain: Why Science Is the Only Way Out of Belief-Dependent Realism
By Michael Shermer

. . . A number of powerful cognitive biases . . . distort our percepts to fit belief concepts. Among them are:

Anchoring Bias. Relying too heavily on one reference anchor or piece of information when making decisions.

Authority Bias. Valuing the opinions of an authority, especially in the evaluation of something we know little about.

Belief Bias. Evaluating the strength of an argument based on the believability of its conclusion.

Confirmation Bias. Seeking and finding confirming evidence in support of already existing beliefs and ignoring or reinterpreting disconfirming evidence.

On top of all these biases, there is the in-group bias, in which we place more value on the beliefs of those whom we perceive to be fellow members of our group and less on the beliefs of those from different groups. . . . Belief-dependent realism is driven even deeper by a meta-bias called the bias blind spot, or the tendency to recognize the power of cognitive biases in other people but to be blind to their influence on our own beliefs.

. . . In science, we have built-in self-correcting machinery. Strict double-blind controls are required, in which neither the subjects nor the experimenters know the conditions during data collection. . . . Research is replicated in other laboratories.

. . . Skepticism is a sine qua non of science, the only escape we have from the belief-dependent realism trap created by our believing brains.
(some bolding mine)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... print=true
Last edited by jnk on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike6977
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Mike6977 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:21 pm

jnk wrote:And who are the "peers" who "review" The New Yorker Magazine?
Woody Allen?



Actually, I think they use the same peer review process as Scientific American.



EDIT: Thanks for the Shermer link, I found it intriguing enough to buy a mobi copy of his book "The Believing Brain".
Last edited by Mike6977 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rested gal
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by rested gal » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:59 pm

A friend remarked in a recent email:
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Mike6977 had linked to this New Yorker article:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... act_lehrer

Seems to reinforce John P. A. Ioannidis’ assertion that launched healthy debate a few years ago:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

Social psychologists are probably having a field day lately with human perception of…. human perception in the field of science. LOL
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dsm
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by dsm » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:42 pm

Aha,

You must all be talking about the IPCC publishing papers on climate change. There must be story here about the IPCC's eroding facts in support of Mann's 'Hockey Stick' tipping point theory about CO2 levels reaching a 'meltdown level'

Hmmmm while on the topic, I wonder if the IPCC has been confusing SDB research with climate research & that too much CO2 in the system might lead to planet hypoxia as well as horrible headaches

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Mike6977
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Mike6977 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:04 am

rested gal wrote: Seems to reinforce John P. A. Ioannidis’ assertion that launched healthy debate a few years ago
Rested gal, The New Yorker magazine writer interviewed John P. A. Ioannidis; you can read what Ioannidis has to say here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... rentPage=4

dsm wrote: I wonder if the IPCC has been confusing SDB research with climate research
Dsm, perhaps the IPCC could combine the two fields and recommend a planetary sized ASV device.


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Gerald
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Gerald » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:27 am

Most of us are "hard wired" with the Scientific Method at birth. The ability to separate truth from BS is slowly worn down by the fraudsters in our culture. Some of us are able to resist, but most lose their ability to think independently.

G

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Otter
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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Otter » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:03 pm

Remember when you were doing experiments in high school physics or chem, and you were judged to have done well only if you got the expected result? This is how the scientific method is taught, but unfortunately, it is completely contrary to the scientific method. Rather than teaching students how to avoid perception bias and the importance of sharing negative or unexpected results, our schools teach them they are doing good science only when they confirm their hypotheses. They learn to hide data which does not support the hypothesis or which contradicts accepted theory, and to outright fudge experimental data to conform to expectations when necessary. With a start like this, is it any wonder that the scientific community is having trouble with the sort of bias that the scientific method is intended to filter out? This is, of course, nothing new. But it would be very nice if we could learn from the mistakes of the past instead of institutionalizing them.

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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:06 pm

Sooo, basically, we are basically back at square one?
Folks who need this type of drugs are still out of luck--sorry about that!
I guess what they can't understand--they consider a way to make money.

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Re: The Truth Wears Off

Post by Otter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:19 am

chunkyfrog wrote:Sooo, basically, we are basically back at square one?
Folks who need this type of drugs are still out of luck--sorry about that!
The second generation antipsychotics? They're still available, aren't they? The article said their apparent effectiveness had decreased, but that wouldn't be a reason to pull the drugs, or even for insurance companies to stop paying for them.

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