They Tell Me I Need This Machine

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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ckeith
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:12 am

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by ckeith » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:13 pm

Janknitz wrote:Insomnia is not unique to you. Many of us had difficulty sleeping because of our apnea to
begin with, and then add in trying to sleep with a chunk of plastic strapped to your face blowing air at you,
sleep was unbelievably difficult. For most of us, when we were able to sleep with the machine, sleep improved.
I'm not saying it's easy--took me a few months.

Search for a member here named "Roby Sue" if you want to see someone who really battled with the insomnia
demon for a good long time. She has a blog addressing it--hopefully someone will send you a link. Roby Sue
fought insomnia and still has battles to fight with it. But she didn't give up.

Personally, I think tackling insomnia comes AFTER some basics. If you don't get them down first, good sleep
will never happen.

So for now, let's eliminate insomnia from the equation. You need to get used to the mask and the blower first,
and this starts when you are wide awake.

1. Make sure you have the right mask. It should be comfortable in whatever sleeping positions you normally move
into during the night. It should not cause pressure sores or pain. It should not leak excessively, especially not into
your eyes. Learn to adjust it so it's "just tight enough" not to leak and never too tight. Learn how to put it on and
off in the dark. Learn how to field strip it for cleaning and put it back together correctly. Learn how it works so you
can be assured that you are not going to asphyxiate, so you know what happens if you tighten that strap or loosen
another one. Learn how it responds as the pressure increases in response to airway events. Learn what you need
to do to improve the comfort--a mask liner (Padacheek, for example), some lanisoh on nasal pillows, a clean face,
a special bed pillow, etc.

2. Understand the settings on your machine. Often people don't touch the settings and don't realize that the ramp
setting (pressure starts very low and may remain low for a period of time on the theory that you can fall asleep before
it's at full pressure--NEVER works that way!) is part of their discomfort because it can make you feel like you're not
getting enough air. Download sleepyhead and learn to read your charts. You can learn if you have big leaks, if the
machine is adequately addressing your apneas, if it's waking you, etc.). Data gives you some sense of control, and goals
to strive for.

3. Now sit in a comfortable chair or on the couch, put on your mask and machine, and just practice not panicking with
the mask on your face. Read, watch TV, listen to music. Don't try to sleep, but don't get upset if you do. Your goal is
to be calm and comfortable with the mask on. Try to stretch out the amount of time you do this. It may be only 10 minutes
at first. Try to get to two hours over time.

4. During this acclimation period you're still going to try to use the machine at night, just as you do in the chair.
Again, don't focus on trying to sleep with the mask--it may happen or not. Your goal is just to tolerate the mask.

Yes, you need sleep. But until you can first take off the roller skates by learning not to fight the mask, you aren't
going to get up that hill.

I had to do this for weeks. I started with 10 minute increments before I'd rip off the mask and throw it across the room.
Gradually I began counting slowly to 10 before I'd rip off the mask, and sometimes I could just keep it on. Sleep came
in short bouts, eventually I got to 2 hours at a time, then 3, and so on. It took me a couple of months to sleep through the night.
Yes, it was miserable. But in the whole of my life, a drop in the bucket of time.

I use a few aids. I use a mask liner because I hate the way silicone feels against my face. I went through about 8 masks
initially until I found something I could sleep with. I hang my hose so it doesn't get in my way. My original machine was
kind of noisy, so I learned to sleep with podcasts (an earbud in one ear--now I have "sleep phones") so I didn't focus on the
rhythm and sound of the machine. I learned never to pressure myself to sleep--if I wake I listen to the podcast, even if
I'm awake all the rest of the night so I'm not "trying" to fall asleep (but now I almost always fall back to sleep within a few minutes).

I made small, daily goals--wearing the mask for 10 minutes while awake. Wearing the mask for 15 minutes while awake.
Sleeping 1 hour with the mask. Sleeping 1 1/2 hours, etc.

And my ultimate goal: Putting the mask on and just going to sleep, just like I put on my PJ's. It took a good, long time to
get there, but giving up was NOT an option.

Hard, HELL yes! Uphill with roller skates--backwards!

And yes, I whined a LOT. There were some people here who gave me a swift kick in the butt when I needed it, for whom
I'll be forever grateful. I'd be dead now, without that. I have no doubt.

Rant or work it. Your choice.
THANK YOU AGAIN
Publicly - I hope you got my PM
That you should SO care about my Desperation
.....................you don't even know me

To write such a complete & compassionate ******
For the moment you have turned my Rant into a Weep

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Julie
Posts: 19928
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Julie » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Sweet. Do you just want to emote, or fix things?

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Bill44133
Posts: 1087
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Location: North Royalton, OH

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Bill44133 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:27 pm

Janknitz wrote:Insomnia is not unique to you. Many of us had difficulty sleeping because of our apnea to begin with, and then add in trying to sleep with a chunk of plastic strapped to your face blowing air at you, sleep was unbelievably difficult. For most of us, when we were able to sleep with the machine, sleep improved. I'm not saying it's easy--took me a few months.

[b]3. Now sit in a comfortable chair or on the couch, put on your mask and machine, and just practice not panicking with the mask on your face. Read, watch TV, listen to music. Don't try to sleep, but don't get upset if you do. Your goal is to be calm and comfortable with the mask on. Try to stretch out the amount of time you do this. It may be only 10 minutes at first. Try to get to two hours over time. [/b]

4. During this acclimation period you're still going to try to use the machine at night, just as you do in the chair. Again, don't focus on trying to sleep with the mask--it may happen or not. Your goal is just to tolerate the mask.

Yes, you need sleep. But until you can first take off the roller skates by learning not to fight the mask, you aren't going to get up that hill.

I had to do this for weeks. I started with 10 minute increments before I'd rip off the mask and throw it across the room. Gradually I began counting slowly to 10 before I'd rip off the mask, and sometimes I could just keep it on. Sleep came in short bouts, eventually I got to 2 hours at a time, then 3, and so on. It took me a couple of months to sleep through the night. Yes, it was miserable. But in the whole of my life, a drop in the bucket of time.

I use a few aids. I use a mask liner because I hate the way silicone feels against my face. I went through about 8 masks initially until I found something I could sleep with. I hang my hose so it doesn't get in my way. My original machine was kind of noisy, so I learned to sleep with podcasts (an earbud in one ear--now I have "sleep phones") so I didn't focus on the rhythm and sound of the machine. I learned never to pressure myself to sleep--if I wake I listen to the podcast, even if I'm awake all the rest of the night so I'm not "trying" to fall asleep (but now I almost always fall back to sleep within a few minutes).

I made small, daily goals--wearing the mask for 10 minutes while awake. Wearing the mask for 15 minutes while awake. Sleeping 1 hour with the mask. Sleeping 1 1/2 hours, etc.

Rant or work it. Your choice.
.+1
Your going to have to train your brain that it is OK to wear that thing on your face.
I know your frustration.. I was the king of rage over this.
Baby steps my friend.. just keep working it.

I wish you well..

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Zzz-Mask Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Settings are IPap 23 EPap 19
Last edited by Bill44133 on Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kteague
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Location: West and Midwest

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by kteague » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:29 pm

If I had a dime for every story on here where the new user felt this was impossible but discovered otherwise I could take a vacation with the proceeds. I was one of those. Have been known to throw a mask against the wall in the middle of the night. Even quit treatment at one point, but that didn't last long as I was too scared to sleep without it. Unless I'm mistaken, you are using a nasal mask, which to me means you are a candidate for using a nasal pillows mask. When I have mine in place before turning on the machine I can't even feel the air. Maybe you could give another style mask a try.

Nothing wrong with being pissed, but I hope you can soon find the "other you" and allow him to address this challenge. My only other treatment suggestion would be to make sure your treatment settings for when you turn the machine on are immediately adequate to control your events. I had an issue with a low ramp pressure that kept me from falling asleep. Hard to relax and fall asleep when you feel like you're suffocating.

At this point you have told us nothing that indicates this is impossible. Challenging, yes. But your biggest challenge is your mindset. Take the word impossible out of your vocabulary and you can be on to problem solving. Best wishes.

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Bleep/DreamPort for full nights, Tap Pap for shorter sessions
Last edited by kteague on Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chunkyfrog
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Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:36 pm

(((OP does not want help))).

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her
Last edited by chunkyfrog on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

yaconsult
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:43 pm
Location: "Silicon Valley", CA

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by yaconsult » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:36 pm

Believe it or not, the problems are solvable. It's just a matter of taking it one step at a time. You know those couple of hours of sleep without the machine? You think you're sleeping, but you're not getting the restorative sleep that you need because the apnea is resulting in you constantly waking up but just below the level that you are aware of it.

The hose can be a big hassle for new users but there is an easy solution - a hose hanger. I use this one that you can get from amazon for only $12: https://www.amazon.com/North-American-H ... B0034CHMRU There are many fancier and more expensive ones but buying a cheap one is a good way to see how it works for you.

People need to know, specifically, what machine and mask you have. Here is a guide to identifying the machine: http://www.apneaboard.com/cpap-machine- ... ine-resmed

I have had a valve replacement and have an implanted defib. My apnea is severe - 80 AHI. Believe me when I tell you that you CAN get used to using the machine. What helps many people is to use the machine while awake and doing something else, like watching a good movie or surfing the net. The idea is just to get used to the feeling of the mask and the feeling of the air. Doing this has helped many people.

Finding the right mask is both the hardest, and the most important part of the whole process. And what works for one, doesn't work for another. Still, when starting out, it makes sense to try the most popular masks. If you don't already have it, the most popular one around here is the AirFit P10 nasal pillow system. It's a tiny little thing that I forget is even there.

Many new cpap users are just given a machine with the settings at the default, wide open settings and these do not work well for many people. What pressure did they specify for you after they did the titration study?

Please don't give up! You really need this therapy and you CAN make it work for you.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: January 2015 Sleep Study Results: Apnea/Hypopnea Index (AHI): 80.2, Sleepyhead

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chunkyfrog
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Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:43 pm

Hopeless, angry troll.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her
Last edited by chunkyfrog on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ckeith
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:12 am

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by ckeith » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:00 pm

Julie wrote:Sweet. Do you just want to emote, or fix things?
No I want to Survive - My house foundation collapsed - no metaphor here
just a funny sense of humor born of not enough Sleep

Had to be rebuilt on 3 sides
I now have a humongous mortgage - got to get 15 more yrs
I want some legacy for my loved ones


& Thanking You Friends
-

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chunkyfrog
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Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:04 pm

Bad stuff happens to everyone. Too bad you are so "special"

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her
Last edited by chunkyfrog on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ckeith
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by ckeith » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:06 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Use your imagination to make your equipment feel like an ADVENTURE.
Pretend you are an astronaut, jet pilot, or scuba diver. Picture yourself having an amazing new experience.
It is perfectly OK to let the kid inside come out.
I'll CHECK THAT !

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Julie
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Julie » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:18 pm

But will you answer the questions?

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Uncle_Bob
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Uncle_Bob » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:46 pm

ckeith wrote:I find it Intolerable !

Right now I feel the only place I can start with my New CPAP machine is to jump up and down on it

Well my first thought was to throw it out the window
As others have said it takes time to get used to it.

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Sleep-Mind ... 111851601X
L--Tryptopan, 5-HTP, vitamin D3 supplements also work well for just me. I am not a doctor.

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ckeith
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by ckeith » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:55 pm

Julie wrote:But will you answer the questions?
Sorry but I think I did - The Machine - The Meds - The Insomnia -
The Irrational yet absolutely compelling aversion to the MASK

What other Questions - I'm so tired I probably am NOT thinking straight ?

ckeith wrote:.
I can't see that the machine issued me is listed on the Profile entry page

"ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset" is titled on the Instruction Manual
The Mask issued me has "Philips Respironics" printed on the back
it fits over the nose - (edit) Pressure setting 10

The Humidifier is part of the machine
Nowhere can I see what Software is installed

I have no ICQ , AOL etc etc as requested on the Profile entry form
I have nothing suitable as an Avatar at the moment


Meds
- Eliquis (Apixaban) 5 mg - twice a day - blood thinner
- Metoprolol 25 mg - twice a day - Blood pressure
- Rosuvastatin 20 mg - 0nce a day - cholesterol reducer
- Tamsulosin 0.4 mg - once a day
- 300mg Iron Supplement - Once a day

I was healthy until last year - Active 170 lbs
NOW - Chronic Insomnia - Heart condition - Valve Op. approx. a year ago
Diagnosed Severe Apnea - Oxygen drops to 78%

I was doing well for many months - Was on Warfarin for the Blood thinner
I am wondering if the Insomnia is not a result of the Apnea but an effect of the Eliquis ???
Maybe I should go back to Warfarin the Rat Poison previously prescribed for blood thinner

WHAT EVER
I cannot Stand that THING on my face! - What is presently less healthy for me ?
Awakening numerous with a startle, even when trying to nap during the day

OR - Having my Blood pressure go up to 205 and my Heart rate up to 130 every time I put the mask on ??
(edit) If I allow it to go much higher that that and it stays there for any length of time I will have to go
to the hospital and get shot down with the Paddles and they can only do that so many times

Blood pressure presently averages 148 - Heart Rate 82

I seem to be in a NO WIN SITUATION - And that Angers me -

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Gasper62
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Gasper62 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:12 pm

Grow a pair, man up, decide who's gonna' be the master. (the machine... or you) If toddlers and children can learn to manage this therapy to extend their life, don't you feel silly sayin' that you're finding it impossible ? Lots of valuable help to be gained here, if and when you decide to take control. Good luck, whichever path you choose.

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Julie
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Re: They Tell Me I Need This Machine

Post by Julie » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:00 pm

I explained how to find the name of the mask... on the edge of the silicon 'cushion' (part nearest your face). P. Respironics makes hundreds of masks.