Getting tired again, am I rebounding?

RED SOX · Post by **RED SOX** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:54 am

Hey I wanna sleep : you mentioned you took a nap around 2pm

and then you slept 7 hours with the cpap, and **two hours without**
I think any sleep you get without the cpap is gonna take away any
benefits you may have gotten when you had it on.

Many posters here have said if they nap without thier cpap they "feel it "
when they wake up.

Hey SAS: how astute of you "mask awareness" soon you'll see sleep
docs everywhere telling thier patients to be patient that thier just going
through "mask awareness"

man I wish I thought of that one, Your on to something there.

littlebaddow · Post by **littlebaddow** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:09 am

Interesting thread. I've been a user for just over 6 months and was a gradual rather than instant improver, using remstar auto with all the trimings.

A couple of months ago I joined the ranks of the multiple-mask owners, adding a breeze to my mirage vista. I've found the breeze far more comfortable to sleep with, but slightly less effective in terms of the results. Average AHI with the vista is just over 1 but with the breeze it's between 3 and 4. I know AHI isn't the only key indicator and this is still in the supposedly acceptable range, but I do notice the difference in the way I feel, especially if I keep using the breeze constantly so generally I use each a week at a time.

The return of symptoms is (thankfully) not as severe as some of you seem to experience, but I do have bad days where I need to either get a couple of hours in during the day or (more likely) try to get to bed a couple of hours earlier, but never without the machine!

Overall, I take heart from the fact that, whatever the ups and downs in how I feel, keeping the discipline of constant use is a far better option that the alternative.

SleepyGuy · Post by **SleepyGuy** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:54 pm

I really feel that machines that have a readout of AHI are critical. Without that you have no idea how well you are really doing.

I use my mask all the time when I'm asleep. If I take it off, especially later in the morning, I feel it. I suspect that my apneas go way up that time. I've woken up feeling good and then gone back to sleep for 45 minutes without the mask and woke feeling tired and dizzy. I suspect I had some major apneas during that time.

Jere · Post by **Jere** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:42 pm

Is it allowed to resurrect old threads This one is pretty good and right on point, but I can't seem to find the answer I was hoping to find.

I have been on xpap since August and pretty much been adjusted to the whole thing right off the bat. Even the mask is comfortable and I am sleeping 7-8 hours through the night. Snoring stopped.

Here is the problem: several days over the past few weeks I have been waking up with the worst brain fog. The fog lasts through the day. Worse than the pre-xpap days.

I am thinking of turning the humidifier down (mostly because I don't have too many options). I thought of turning up the pressure, but I am hesitant to play doctor.

Any ideas?

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:46 pm

Crank it up !......slowly.....Maybe once a week...........keep a log of how you feel.......Or buy an auto.

:twis ted:

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:50 am

Jere,
What does your software report?
Check all your hardware to make sure you not losing pessure from leaks (holes in hoses, etc.).

If you're living alone - check the heating system to make sure it's not blowing in bad air - this is especially relevant if you live alone, less so if others are around who don't feel foggy on the same days.

Is you nose as clear as it was in the beginning, or could it be congested? All these might effect the therapy's effectiveness.

O.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:00 am

I know, simple solution, perhaps simple mind. But since so many seem to be experiencing this symptom of "relapse" or "regression" at this time, could it have to do with change of seasons perhaps? Or maybe it's just normal, as with life, to have periods of ups and downs with this therapy. Nothing in life is ever constant, so why should our therapy be? There are so many variables that affect us and how we feel from day to day, perhaps it's nothing abnormal to feel like this from time to time.

yardbird · Post by **yardbird** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:10 am

This may or may not be relevant to your location. Here in western NY I noticed as it got colder, I was starting to wake up often. Now it's got to where I am fully awake about 2-1/2 to 3 hours after turning on the machine and going to sleep. I can't get back to sleep because the air blowing up my nose is like... refrigerated! My passover humidifier is acting like a swamp cooler!

I've ordered new equipment, including a heated humidifier. My point being, as LoRi alluded, there may be a seasonal connection here. Are some of us sensitive to changes in the air that the machine is delivering? I think my own case may be quite extreme. The air is uncomfortably COLD... not just cooler than usual. But was I noticing some restlessness in the couple weeks prior due to the air becoming marginal as far as comfort? Makes sense to me. When I first go to bed, the passover has been filled with hot tap water. The air coming out is neither warm nor cold. I assume it's very close to body temperature as I don't NOTICE it. And I fall asleep quickly and with no trouble. When I wake up a couple hours later my nose is cold! The air is almost painfully cold. Makes sense. Cold air can't deliver as much humidity as warm air.

This whole seasonal thing definitely bears consideration.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Hi

No one yet in this thread seems to have posted an answer, I wonder how the people posting these problems are getting on a year later?

I started CPAP at the beginning of August this year, just at the point I started a long holiday. Two weeks later I am feeling better, nothing I could really put a finger on. The third week I went on business to Prague, and boy did I party! I don't remember having that energy to party since I was 20!! There followed another week and a half of holiday before a return to work at the beginning of September.

That first week, and the second week, I was burning! Concentration was way up, no sleepiness, facts at my finger tips. The brain dead way I had dragged myself through the last two years was gone. It was great, life was great...

And now, a further three weeks on, I feel like I am back where I started. At first I thought it was a different tiredness, just feeling tired but not on the edge of actually going to sleep. Now, this weekend, I just want to sleep again. I feel as bad as I did before.

I adhere religiously to the treatment, 4 hours a night minimum. Usually I looking at 6 to 8 hours of sleep. And now maybe I wake up once for a toilet stop. Before CPAP I awoke several times a night. I generally feel that my sleep is deeper, it takes me much longer to wake up to the alarm in the morning, very different to before.

So, anybody got any feed back?

Thanks

Bob

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:26 pm

Bob,

What you're experiencing is not unusual.....actually fairly common for where you're at in your therapy. Just try to get ENOUGH sleep.
You didn't list your equipment and pressure.....
Do you have a machine that records sleep statistics?
If you use a nasal mask, it could be that you're losing air out your mouth during the night (mouth leaking) which means your machine air isn't doing you any good. Need to stop the mouth leaks (if that's what it is).

Best wishes,

Den

Captain_Midnight · Post by **Captain_Midnight** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:34 pm

I've been using CPAP for 9 months now, and I experienced something similar to what you describe after about 2 months of pappery.

Luckily, I read some posts about this phenomenon, and I knew to anticipate it.

One poster had relayed what his DME told him, (and I can only paraphrase) which was that a lot of SA patients start off feeling superb, then after a few weeks or months, the newly found clarity and energy fall off quickly with a return of sleepiness, fogginess, forgetfulness etc (although not to pre-therapy levels). Then, with continued compliant therapy, the clarity and energy begin to rebuild, slowly, over a period of many months.

My experience was similar to above. After about 3 or so, I asked for a home autopap 5 day titration, which accurately pegged my need for 3 addnl cm of pressure.

Made a huge difference.

I have a few ideas as to why this cycle happens. When you first go on PAP therapy, you get the REM your bod has been starving for for years (or decades). Then, one's system needs to re-order his or her sleep cycle, and this puts a laundry list of hormones in a dither while adjusting to sleeping longer stretches.

I also think think that in PAP therapy, one gradually learns to go into deeper and deeper Delta sleep, meaning that a higher pressure may be in order for some.

All just thoughts of mine with no proof whatsoever.

Good luck adjusting to long-term PAP compliance.

Regards all - - Capt Midnight

byront · Post by **byront** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:32 pm

Thanks Wulfman, Captain Midnight, and Guest. Another reason why this is such a great forum. It's odd because I am going on my third month and have been very concerned about this exact issue for about the last week. This morning I sat on the couch, only about two hours after waking, and could hardly stay awake. I was really starting to stress about it. Then I check this board and here is an old topic that has been summoned up and it deals with exactly what I have been worrying about. Sounds like it is something I may be dealing with for a while, but at least I now know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. --- BT

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:37 pm

BT,

Even after almost a year and a half, I still get some of those, too. However, I know what my problem is.....not getting ENOUGH sleep.....like I mentioned.

Hang in there!

Den

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:25 am

Hey thanks all!

For the person who asked my pressure, it's 10cm. It is interesting what you say about the need for extra pressure in deeper sleep. When I first put on teh mask at night, I cannot open my mouth, if I do the air comes back up through my throat. However, if I awaken in the night and do teh same, nothing, no escaping pressure... I try reseating the mask, but still no escaping air through my throat. What has changed?

Anyeway, thanks everyone, I now know that I just need to continue and it is not unusual. I guess what is unusual in my case is that because of my long holiday I have not had any follow up appointments, I know that normally this would have happened. Guess I need to get back and talk to them.

THanks Again folks

Bob

WillCunningham · Post by **WillCunningham** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:55 am

One thing that I did not see mentioned in the thread is the effect Acid Reflux and GERD can have on cpap therapy. I felt 1000x better on cpap but I would occasionally notice days where I really felt unrested. After it was mentioned that Acid Reflux affects the effectiveness of cpap therapy I had one of those lightning bolt moments of sudden understanding. I did much better after I took pains to treat my acid reflux and my feeling good became much more consistant.

On a related note I ended up switching from cpap to a bipap auto. I had some difficulty adjusting to the changing pressure in auto mode and while my apnea was under control my sleep was still distrubed. I used auto mode to re-titrate myself and then ran my unit in standard bipap mode and have been doing great ever since.

Thanks,

Will

Getting tired again, am I rebounding?

6 Weeks great, then symptoms return...

symptoms rebound

Thanks

Machine	Mask