Mouth leaking air problem and taping

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lrob123
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Location: Indiana, USA

Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by lrob123 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:14 pm

I'm new to CPAP (Auto Pap) and have used my machine for 3 nights. I have a nasal pillow mask (Swift Bella) and it is working well with not much leaking according to Sleepyhead.

According to my stats in Sleepyhead and the helpful people on this board, I will need to get my pressure range increased. The machine is set to 4cm-8cm and I spend most time at 8cm still having apneas.

So I will get my pressure increased soon, I'm asking my doc first and if that doesn't work (e.g if he tells me to wait until my appointment in May), I will change it myself.

Anyway, when my pressure goes up to 7cm or 8cm, occasionally air spurts out of my mouth with a hissing or popping sound which wakes me up and wakes my husband. He is not too happy about this.

I am not a mouth breather and my mouth is almost always closed. With CPAP on, it takes a bit of pressure to open my mouth. So I don't think I'm opening my mouth accidentally, it is air that is popping it open a little. Sometimes when it wakes me up, I concentrate on keeping my tongue up at the top of my mouth, touching front teeth, and even sucking a little. Still the air pops my mouth open.

First I tried a chip strap (the white bandage-looking kind given to me by the DME) and it sort of gave me a headache, but my lips still buzzed and leaked air.

Then I tried taping my mouth shut. This definitely was an improvement in the number of times my mouth leaked air. But still a few times I would wake up with air stuck in my mouth, sometimes with chipmunk cheeks. I didn't want to swallow the air so pulled the tape off a little to let the air out. It isn't feasible to keep having to do this every night.

For people that tape their mouths closed, don't you get air stuck in your mouth, and when that happens, what do you do?

I like my nasal pillow mask. Do you think I'm going to be stuck wearing a full face mask because of this, or is there some solution?

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LSAT
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Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by LSAT » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:09 pm

You shouldn't be having the mask leakage problems at 7-8. That is still a very low pressure. Many people here average much higher pressures without that problem. Your machine goes up to 20. If the problem continues, the solution would be a full face mask or the chin strap.

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lrob123
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Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by lrob123 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:26 pm

LSAT wrote:You shouldn't be having the mask leakage problems at 7-8. That is still a very low pressure. Many people here average much higher pressures without that problem. Your machine goes up to 20. If the problem continues, the solution would be a full face mask or the chin strap.
I don't think my mask is leaking, at least Sleepyhead doesn't show that it is leaking. And I don't hear or detect air around the mask except for where it comes out the vent (which I think it is supposed to do?). But air is getting into my mouth somehow. I'm new to CPAP and probably confused, maybe air only gets into my mouth if the mask is leaking? Actually, I'm wondering how does the air get into my mouth when my mouth is closed? I'm using a nasal pillow and I sleep with my mouth closed (I'm not a mouth breather), but air is popping my mouth open for some reason.

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Pugsy
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Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Air goes up the nose and down the airway and the tongue drops down and opens the door so that the air can enter the mouth.
It's easy to keep the tongue blocking the door while awake but when we go to sleep the tongue gets lazy and drops down.
What I did to help teach my tongue that I wanted it to stay in the roof of my mouth when I was sleep was during the day I made an effort to make sure the tongue was in the roof of my mouth every chance I got.

Now it is rare that I ever have air enter my mouth from the airway and it's been so long since I had chipmunk cheeks that I have forgotten the last time...it's been years.

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lrob123
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Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by lrob123 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:57 am

Pugsy wrote:Air goes up the nose and down the airway and the tongue drops down and opens the door so that the air can enter the mouth.
It's easy to keep the tongue blocking the door while awake but when we go to sleep the tongue gets lazy and drops down.
What I did to help teach my tongue that I wanted it to stay in the roof of my mouth when I was sleep was during the day I made an effort to make sure the tongue was in the roof of my mouth every chance I got.

Now it is rare that I ever have air enter my mouth from the airway and it's been so long since I had chipmunk cheeks that I have forgotten the last time...it's been years.
Thanks, Pugsy, I hope I'm able to train my tongue. Can you tell me, do you sort of suck on the tongue and pull it back, or leave it relaxed? Are your teeth closed and touching or are they slightly apart (when sleeping and when you are training it during the day)?

I read someone suggested using polygrip strips and I bought some, but the instructions are only for denture wearers. Can anyone explain how to use polygrip strips for apnea? Did anyone have success with that?

I want to train my tongue and maybe eventually I'll succeed. But in the short term, I feel very bad that my mouth leaking noises are awakening my husband and disturbing him when he's lying awake. I almost feel like I should be sleeping in a different room (but we don't have any guest room).

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lrob123
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:14 am
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by lrob123 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:06 am

Also, I called my doctor and he will ask my RT to raise my pressure to 6-10 cm (was 4-8 cm). He said to download the SD card data again in a month so he can check how it is working. Yeah right, ha ha. I use Sleepyhead and I will call him again in just a couple days if I still am staying at max pressure and getting AHI of 20.

But the higher pressure is likely to make my mouth leaking worse, so I'm worried about that.

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Pugsy
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Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:28 am

lrob123 wrote:Can you tell me, do you sort of suck on the tongue and pull it back, or leave it relaxed? Are your teeth closed and touching or are they slightly apart (when sleeping and when you are training it during the day)?
Never really thought about it because it is so second nature now. I just plant my tongue behind my front teeth sort of up against the roof of my mouth and keep my lips closed unless talking or eating and I just breathe through my nose all the time.
Teeth are usually in closed position as that seems more "natural" than having the slightly apart with the tongue behind those front teeth.
The tongue is relaxed though because I want it to be something I do without thinking.

The polygrip trick...the strips are used to seal the lips or at least that's the idea behind it. To stop the lips from parting. It won't help with chipmunk cheeks which are caused by the tongue not blocking that back door.
If the problem is the chipmunk cheeks and not the lips parting...the solution is to close that back door and not allow the air to enter the mouth. Easier said than done for some people. Also it's more than just the tongue placement. It's actually possible to close that back door without using the tongue at all but I don't know how to tell people to close the back door because it's just something I can now do and I don't know how I do it.
I can now talk...open my mouth wide and even stick out my tongue and not have the air going up my nose and down the airway enter my mouth at all. I am not alone...lots of people can do it but since we do it without thinking it's hard to explain what we do. It involves doing what we all do when blowing up a balloon and not have the air go out the nose at the same time as it goes into the balloon.
We tell people about the tongue trick because we can't explain the other trick.

Higher pressures blowing that back door open...not necessarily once you master keeping the door closed.
My starting pressures are a lot higher than what it appears you are going to need. Like my minimum pressure is higher than your 10 suggested max pressure and the pressure never blows that back door open. With time and experience you can get there too but it takes time and experience and getting to the point that the back door just stays closed as second nature without pointed concentrated effort.
I think it took me maybe 6 months to get there...where I could talk without air gushing out my mouth.
I wish I could tell you step by step how to do it but I can't because I am not aware of anything special being done...only aware that the back door stays closed even if I open my mouth wide and stick out my tongue.

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tan
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Re: Mouth leaking air problem and taping

Post by tan » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:01 am

lrob123 wrote: Then I tried taping my mouth shut. This definitely was an improvement in the number of times my mouth leaked air. But still a few times I would wake up with air stuck in my mouth, sometimes with chipmunk cheeks. I didn't want to swallow the air so pulled the tape off a little to let the air out. It isn't feasible to keep having to do this every night.

For people that tape their mouths closed, don't you get air stuck in your mouth, and when that happens, what do you do?
I personally had to switch FFM and still tape my mouth. FFM serves like a pressure equalizer outside and inside the mouth. With nasal mask alone, pressure builds up in your mouth. You may have some options:
1) switch to FFM; but if you really like your nasal, then;
2) try to limit the flow of air out of your mouth: either try partial taping, so then air won't build up much; or
3) the same as above look up for Jay's use of head band for the same purpose on this forum