OSA and work (Railrod and Pilots)

Hello,
I am new to this site, but not to OSA and CPAPs. I was diagnosed almost 5 years ago and have been on the CPAP ever since. It has been a bit of a struggle as I work for the railroad and thus have no schedule. I have also gotten in to the sleep clinic at my local VA so we are tracking it more aggressively now too. Still struggling to get it under effective management.

Perhaps someone here can advise me on one point. From recent information the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) is looking to implement policies in regards to OSA like those with the FAA has done for pilots. Can some one advise me as to how that has worked for pilots and what may have been done for pilots working for airlines who couldn't meet the requirements for keeping their licenses?

Thank you,
David

I would hope that anybody who loses a job for health reasons would be eligible for disability if there was no concealment involved. This is especially so when it is because of a new rule.

If you're CPAP compliant before the rule was in effect, you should be able to hand them the data card as proof of compliance.

D.H. wrote:I would hope that anybody who loses a job for health reasons would be eligible for disability if there was no concealment involved.

Nope, either use CPAP or find another career where you can use public transit or ride-sharing.

Coloneldad wrote:Can some one advise me as to how that has worked for pilots and what may have been done for pilots working for airlines who couldn't meet the requirements for keeping their licenses?

If a person can't meet whatever requirements there might be for whatever job they might have then they get to look for a new job. Now what might be done to "help" them...probably up to the employer how far they want to go to try to help.
Most of the time it is "so sorry charlie..go find another job somewhere".
Any industry like airplane pilots where there's a large number of other people involved in the safety aspect of things is going to be pretty hard assed about it. I am surprised that railroads haven't jumped on the band wagon yet. Over the road truck drivers have some specific requirements about OSA and compliancy and have had for some time now.

Losing one's job because they can't meet cpap compliancy requirements is not going to qualify someone for SS security disability though.
And as far as a private or employer provided disability policy...dunno..depends on the insurance and the policy.

Coloneldad wrote:Hello,
I am new to this site, but not to OSA and CPAPs. I was diagnosed almost 5 years ago and have been on the CPAP ever since. It has been a bit of a struggle as I work for the railroad and thus have no schedule. I have also gotten in to the sleep clinic at my local VA so we are tracking it more aggressively now too. Still struggling to get it under effective management.

Perhaps someone here can advise me on one point. From recent information the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) is looking to implement policies in regards to OSA like those with the FAA has done for pilots. Can some one advise me as to how that has worked for pilots and what may have been done for pilots working for airlines who couldn't meet the requirements for keeping their licenses?

Thank you,
David

Maybe they they found jobs testing Sleep Number beds. Usually people who don't follow the rules to keep their licences have the privilege taken away, in the interest of public safety. Jim

For the most part XPAP can be done, choice and effort go a long way to success, in all things.

D.H. wrote:I would hope that anybody who loses a job for health reasons would be eligible for disability if there was no concealment involved. This is especially so when it is because of a new rule.

If you're CPAP compliant before the rule was in effect, you should be able to hand them the data card as proof of compliance.

Eligibility for disability is very hard. You must have an incurable disease for which there is no cure. Being uncomfortable with a CPAP mask won't qualify a person.

Pugsy wrote:

Coloneldad wrote:Can some one advise me as to how that has worked for pilots and what may have been done for pilots working for airlines who couldn't meet the requirements for keeping their licenses?

If a person can't meet whatever requirements there might be for whatever job they might have then they get to look for a new job. Now what might be done to "help" them...probably up to the employer how far they want to go to try to help.
Most of the time it is "so sorry charlie..go find another job somewhere".
Any industry like airplane pilots where there's a large number of other people involved in the safety aspect of things is going to be pretty hard assed about it. I am surprised that railroads haven't jumped on the band wagon yet. Over the road truck drivers have some specific requirements about OSA and compliancy and have had for some time now.

Losing one's job because they can't meet cpap compliancy requirements is not going to qualify someone for SS security disability though.
And as far as a private or employer provided disability policy...dunno..depends on the insurance and the policy.

I don't want to stir up a hornets' nest here, but could you point me in the right direction to find any actual regulation(s) in force by the DOT or FMCSA for CDL holders? I get the run around every year at my physical renewal, but so far no one can actually cite these supposed new rules for drivers.

Coloneldad wrote:It has been a bit of a struggle as I work for the railroad and thus have no schedule.

Before you go to sleep put on your cpap - not sure where the struggle is?

Coloneldad wrote: I was diagnosed almost 5 years ago and have been on the CPAP ever since.

Do you not feel better yet? After the first 6 months/year or so most of us just refuse to sleep with out our cpaps. So tell us where you are having troubles? Lots of info on this site to help for sure.

Google "sleep apnea and DOT or CDL" and start reading and following links.
Start here I guess.
http://dotphysicaldoctor.com/can-dot-me ... eep-study/
Pay special attention to part 5 but read all of the parts.

I think the biggest bitch that truck drivers are having is they are being forced to have sleep studies and they don't want to have one or want to pay for a sleep study.
Once you get the diagnosis the rules are fairly clear as to how to meet the compliance requirements but don't ask me what they are exactly or where to find them. They are somewhere in that big DOT rules and regulations book that truck drivers have to follow.

If you have a CDL you should already be aware of that rule book.

And there's another rule..whatever rule an employer wants to implement as long as it doesn't go against the government rules...they can take the governments general rules and tighten them if they want to.
They just can't lessen the rules.

Pugsy wrote:Google "sleep apnea and DOT or CDL" and start reading and following links.
Start here I guess.
http://dotphysicaldoctor.com/can-dot-me ... eep-study/
Pay special attention to part 5 but read all of the parts.

I think the biggest bitch that truck drivers are having is they are being forced to have sleep studies and they don't want to have one or want to pay for a sleep study.
Once you get the diagnosis the rules are fairly clear as to how to meet the compliance requirements but don't ask me what they are exactly or where to find them. They are somewhere in that big DOT rules and regulations book that truck drivers have to follow.

If you have a CDL you should already be aware of that rule book.

And there's another rule..whatever rule an employer wants to implement as long as it doesn't go against the government rules...they can take the governments general rules and tighten them if they want to.
They just can't lessen the rules.

That's just it- I'd link if I could from my iPotato, but the FMCSA got called to the carpet for trying to slip in some new rules without going through the proper processes. Onimmer even signed it into law that they could not pursue the methods that they were attempting regarding new regulations. And even on FMCSA's admission, 'guidance' does Not carry the weight of law. Currently in its latest state they have removed such " guidance" on the subject and gone strangely silent for the most part on the matter. However since the ME's now have to operate on their registry, they are probably concerned about liability issues for themselves when signing off on the med cards? Maybe. I understand that there is a current regulation in the driver fitness rules that state anyone with a diagnosed respiratory condition that could be cause for disqualification under certain circumstances. I know that that rule is there. But every employee that I've argued with cannot even produce that. Two of them did not even know about that one.
But my main complaint was and still is- the ME's are not helping matters by trying to tell drivers it's in the rules. And last year when one smug ME told me she was going to measure my neck and then threatened to not certify me when I would not let her , I felt fully prepared to fight this another year or two just on my principles, however misguided. The DOT decided to go after this the wrong way from the beginning and it pissed people off.
Thankfully I got with the right doctors, and started my CPAP therapy for my own reasons . I don't disagree with any potential rules coming down the pike, just the method in which they started to try this.

Wrinkles wrote:I don't disagree with any potential rules coming down the pike, just the method in which they started to try this.

I hear you..and a lot more than you might think. My husband is OTR and has a CDL. So I hear his bitching all the time about all this stuff and how the government is messing with stuff they shouldn't be messing with.

It's typical government rules and regulations...clear as mud.

Just use your cpap like you should and there shouldn't be a problem. If you are unable to use it like you should then quite frankly I wouldn't want to be on the road where you are driving.
I know the life of truck drivers...their sleep is crap anyway and they sure as hell don't need it compromised by not adequately (at least per their stupid regulations) treating a known sleep disorder.

I was arguing with MEdical Examiners, not employees,
And my apologies for sending this a bit off topic. But if
someone tells you that it's a "new rule" be sure and research it
for your own information.

Wrinkles wrote:I don't want to stir up a hornets' nest here, but could you point me in the right direction to find any actual regulation(s) in force by the DOT or FMCSA for CDL holders? I get the run around every year at my physical renewal, but so far no one can actually cite these supposed new rules for drivers.

I haven't found actual Federal regs specific to OSA. I believe it's a work in progress. And it can take a long time. But where they cover it is with this one.

FMCSA regulation 49 CFR 391.41(b)(5) states, “(b) A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person . . . (5) Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of a respiratory dysfunction likely to interfere with his/her ability to control and drive a commercial motor vehicle safely.”

As a respiratory dysfunction, OSA is covered by this rule. The rule, written very broadly, does not include criteria, diagnostic testing, or treatment regimen.

And since you are required to use their certified medical examiners which screen for sleep apnea and they will not provide you with a required physical until you have a sleep study, they have it covered.

I appreciate the comments. I have had ky CPAP as I said for 5 years, initially I used it and had some i provement, although with some adjustments to sleeping with a mask on. My initial improvements quickly lost ground once I went back to work for the railroad (I was coming off deployment with the military) and got onthat non-schedule. Even though I use it more often I am still having issues. I recognize the safety concerns and the last thing I want to do is endanger any one else. Up until now there has been no limitations on OSA and engineer licensing but as I said due to recent events the FRA is looking at it and reportedly looking at copying the FAA policies. I am curious to see if there are any pilots out there with experience in how the airlines responded to the changes a few years back.

I know disability is an option, which for the railroads is an option after the 20 year mark, however it takes upto a year right now to process and then you won't get paid for the first 5 months. Oh, by the way before you can apply you have to quit your job or get fired. Not many are ble to just walk away that way and then hope the Railroad Retirement Board (RRB) will approve your request for disability.

I feel sympathy for your situation; but cannot ignore recent tragic incidents,
Everyone's safety takes precedence over one person's comfort/job/etc.
Sorry, but that is only fair.