water chamber runs out

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
basegolf

water chamber runs out

Post by basegolf » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:11 am

I have to decide between the ResMed AirCurve10 BiPap and the Respironics Dreamstation BiPap. My current autopap is a Respironics System One. It doesn't have heated tubing, but I have an insulated cover for it. The humidity is set to a 4 (5 being the highest). Because my mouth is still so dry when I wake up, I would like to go to the highest level, but the water chamber runs out of water after about 5 hours, and I get a little rain out.

I noticed the ResMed AirCurve10's water chamber is 380 cm3 versus the Dreamstation's 325 cm3. Do the water chambers on both of these machines run out of water if set to the highest humidity level after 6-7 hours of use? Is there rain out if set to the highest level?

Thanks for your help.

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Pugsy
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Re: water chamber runs out

Post by Pugsy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:37 am

basegolf wrote:Is there rain out if set to the highest level?
Not necessarily. It depends on how cool the ambient room temperature happens to be and does it cool down the air in the hose to the point of the release of the moisture.
Easily fixed with a heated hose though if it should happen.
In the winter my bedroom air temp can be in the mid 50s and I use the maximum setting on my humidifier and I don't get rain out in the mask or hose. I do use a heated hose though. A hose cozy won't get the job done at my colder ambient room temps. It might if it weren't so cold but hose cozies add weight...and I prefer less weight on the mask.
basegolf wrote:Do the water chambers on both of these machines run out of water if set to the highest humidity level after 6-7 hours of use?
Not normally. Most of the time they will last all night for at least one night.

Several things affect water consumption
1...ambient room humidity
2...pressures used
3...humidity selected
4...large leaks (use more water)
basegolf wrote:Because my mouth is still so dry when I wake up
Which mask are you using?
If a full face mask and you were assuming that using a full face mask fixes the dry mouth thing...it doesn't always fix dry mouth.
Do you happen to do a lot of mouth breathing for any reason?
If you can't go all night with a tank of water....something is causing excessive water usage...most people can go all night and not have it go dry even at maximum humidity setting.

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basegolf

Re: water chamber runs out

Post by basegolf » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:51 am

Pugsy, thank you for your reply. It is encouraging to hear that the heated tubing will be a better option than the hose cozy.

I am using the Amara View. I have a neuromuscular disease which affects the muscles in my face, making it impossible to keep my mouth closed when I sleep so I am a mouth breather. There are no leaks. My pressure setting was recently increased to 16-18. I tend to average 18 which is why the doctor is changing me to a BiPap. My new settings will probably be 14 on the inhale and 10 on the exhale --- I'm waiting for the sleep study results. I'm hoping that the lower pressures may help the water usage as well. We live in Southern NM where it is quite dry most of the year.

basegolf

Re: water chamber runs out

Post by basegolf » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:53 am

Pugsy, do you have an opinion about the ResMed AirCurve10 versus the Respironics Dreamstation?

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Pugsy
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Re: water chamber runs out

Post by Pugsy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:12 am

Mouth breathing (even with a full face mask) will dry the mouth out and for some people the addition of even maximum humidity won't be enough to restore the amount of moisture we want due to a variety of reasons.
This whole added humidity thing was originally designed to help with nasal moisture because a lot of people had significant nasal issues brought on by the drying effect of the air. The nasal cavity is much smaller than the oral cavity and for some people the humidifier can't crank out enough moisture to overcome the drying effect of mouth breathing. Maybe they are on some meds that tend to dry out the mouth...maybe they live in an area that is already fairly arid...maybe they are just unlucky.

Sounds like you got the short straw in multiple areas. There are ways to try to improve your odds and add more moisture.
First option would be to get a heated hose...not only does it help prevent condensation but it allows for greater consistent humidity delivery.
If you can get the machine with the larger water chamber...I would try to get it in an effort to maximize available water. Will it be enough...unknown but it's worth trying.
If the dry mouth is just horrible there are products designed to help reduce the dry mouth and there is even a way to add an additional humidifier into the mix but you lose the integrated heated hose when you do that so in my book that would be a last resort.
I think I would try adding a general room humidifier in an effort to increase ambient humidity first because I wouldn't want to lose the integrated heated hose but there are stand alone heated hoses available.

I would start with "easiest" first...see if easy fix is enough. That would be a machine with as large of a chamber as possible and a heated hose in an effort to not run out of water.
There's not going to be much you can do about the physical aspects of mouth breathing due to your other issues so I would consider adding one of the anti dry mouth products also. There are several out there to choose from and it may be a trial and error experiment to find which seems to help you the most. I don't have any personal experience with those products but we have many forum members here that do have some experience and they can offer what works well for them.

If you continually run out of water in the middle of the night there is also the option of keeping a second water chamber handy for quick swapping in the middle of the night if you happen to wake up. I think having a second chamber handy is a better option than trying to refill the chamber in the middle night which would involve really having to be alert.

If "easy" doesn't resolve the issue to your satisfaction then look at other not so easy options.

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
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Pugsy
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Re: water chamber runs out

Post by Pugsy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:26 am

basegolf wrote:Pugsy, do you have an opinion about the ResMed AirCurve10 versus the Respironics Dreamstation?
I haven't personally used these latest models but I have used the prior models of both brands in the bilevel department.
The PR S1 bilevel and the ResMed S9 VPAP bilevel. There were some cosmetic changes with the newer models but how they go about doing their job wasn't changed.

I personally preferred the ResMed but it was a very close contest. Both have some minor pros and cons but none were really deal makers or deal breakers for me.

The ResMed auto algorithm is a bit more "aggressive"...not hugely more but a bit more. For some that can be a "pro" and for some that can be a "con". For me it's a "pro".
More aggressive could potentially mean slightly less pressure is needed to get the same result. Not a guarantee but it's a possibility.
I can get by with a little less pressure with a ResMed machine than I might need with a Respironics machine because the ResMed responds and goes up quicker and back down quicker. Since pressure needs affect water consumption...anytime we can use a little less pressure we increase the odds of not using as much water overall. So that's a maybe "pro" for water consumption potential. No guarantee but a strong maybe.

I would suggest you try the ResMed if you can...it has a larger water chamber...offers a heated hose...it's maybe a tiny bit more quiet...and the chances of your having a problem with the aggressiveness of the ResMed algorithm is minimal.

For sure get the model that allows for auto adjusting pressures though...you want the machine to be able to use lower pressures when it can. If you get the fixed bilevel model the pressure is fixed all night. In ResMed that is the "S" model....get the VAuto if looking at the AirCurve 10 models.

So I vote ResMed in your situation...I think it offers the best chance of doing what you want and need. Will it be enough...dunno but I think it offers the best chance of maybe getting it done.

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

basegolf

Re: water chamber runs out

Post by basegolf » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:11 am

Hi Pugsy,

All of that sounds like good advice. Thank you so much. I will make sure I ask the medical supply company for all of those features. You are right: it's hard to know, but it is worth a try.

If it weren't for forums like this, I would have given up a long time ago. Using the machine helps me feel so much better that it is worth the time and money to find solutions. Thank you for your help.

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Re: water chamber runs out

Post by D.H. » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:54 pm

Just from experience, my Dream Station runs out of water before seven hours. Since I usually get up at least once during the night, I refill it.

For the record, my min pressure is 13.5 and I keep the humidity and the hose on max. It might last longer with a lower pressure and/or a lower setting on the humidity or on the hose.

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Re: water chamber runs out

Post by RestlessinWoolley » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:23 pm

I have the dreamstation and found something out last night. You can change the humidity between adaptive and fixed. Mines been on Adaptive mode and incan use a few spoon fulls of water or drain the tank as well. I run at a 4 as well. It all depends on outside conditions as well like Pugsy said. I was thinking it was ambient room conditions but I keep my too. At about 65 at night and my humidity stays between 35-45%. But now we have gone from below freezing and snow to sunny and cold no snow and rain and last night it poured rain and I didn't use much at all vs the night before it was clear and 27 out and drained the tank. I can't wait to get my correct machine and the heated hose I was prescribed. Good luck

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basegolf

Re: water chamber runs out

Post by basegolf » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:41 am

Thank you everyone. With all of that input, I'm going for the ResMed and will hope for the best.