TAP - Thornton Adjustable Positioner

http://amisleep.com/test.html

I was diagnosed with apnea last month and do not think I can tolerate the mask and equipment. Several of my friends have not been able to wear the masks and one died at age 60 last summer from complications of untreated apnea.

Is this TAP product for real? I would really like to look into it. My doctor did not recommend it so maybe it is a bunch of bs.

I am postponing buying the cpap equipment in case I can find something better to work for me.

I am really messed up with the apnea. Should have had a sleep study several years ago.

http://amisleep.com/test.html

Lots of previous posts on TAP. Here's a link to a great list compiled by rested gal:

LINKS to surgery, turbinates, Pillar, TAP experiences

Nuboy wrote:http://amisleep.com/test.html

one died at age 60 last summer from complications of untreated apnea.

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

That soundslike one good reason to get on the hose to me, Most people can handle XPAP treatment, when they make up their minds to do it, It's easier than dieing, or dealing with medical problems brought on by de-nile.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): hose

I would get a good sleep doc and do what he recommends. What I have read about these dental appliances is that they are not as effective as XPAP and they have problems of their own. I don't get why you say you can't tolerate a mask when you haven't tried it? Besides, do you think the rest of thought, "Oh wow, I can't wait to get one of those!!!" when we got diagnosed? I won't lie to you. CPAP takes some adjustment. But it beats the alternatives. All the alternatives.

Nuboy,

Unless you have mild apnea, this probably won't work for you. I confess I was like you and didn't want to get on CPAP because of problems my sister and cousin had experienced with allergies, masks, etc. Even though I had severe apnea, I wanted to try and see how this would work. Long and short is it didn't. All it did was mess up my bite and give me pain. I found that even though the appliance was extremely tight on my teeth, I would somehow work the lower plate off during the night. Talk about frustrating. Plus there was the added problem of excess saliva.

I have to say once I hooked up to pap, I haven't looked back. From one reluctant person to another, give it a try. It might take a little finagling to get the perfect mask, but once you do...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm so happy I finally caved and went for APAP.

I know this device has been successful in mild cases on occasion, but for me it wasn't going to work. You may want to save yourself the money and go for the tried and true...CPAP. It's well worth the trouble of finding the perfect mask. I wish I had gone right to CPAP as it would have saved me $375.

Whatever you do, please start treatment now.

Melinda

I just started using the TAP.
It works for me, I love it, and I just optimistically packed up my CPAP into storage.

Do I think its THE miracle cure for everyone? Heck NO!

BTW, your really should go through a CERTIFIED sleep dentist for the device and make sure they are very familiar with TMJ so they can watch for that possible complication.
http://www.dentalsleepmed.org/FindaDentist.aspx

I have to wait and see how it goes for long term for myself. And even to get to where I am, FIRST I saw a sleep doc, got on CPAP, worked out the bugs with THIS great forum assisting me, got surgery on my sinuses and nose to be able to nose breath, got checked by an ENT in DEPTH to make sure it was tongue and jaw falling back that was causing my MODERATE apnea, and I made sure fat was not an issue contributing to the apnea.

And THEN forked out $1800 out of pocket to get a TAP fitted and installed by a CERTIFIED sleep dentist. And I am monitoring myself with pulse ox machine I bought myself.

i.e. there are no free lunches. Its ALL a tough row to hoe.

Is it worth it?

for ME, yes it is, so far.

But then its working for me.....

and time will tell.

Snork1 wrote:

And THEN forked out $1800 out of pocket to get a TAP fitted and installed by a CERTIFIED sleep dentist. And I am monitoring myself with pulse ox machine I bought myself.

and what is the pulse ox machine showing?

Anonymous wrote:Snork1 wrote:

And THEN forked out $1800 out of pocket to get a TAP fitted and installed by a CERTIFIED sleep dentist. And I am monitoring myself with pulse ox machine I bought myself.

and what is the pulse ox machine showing?

Pulse ox is showing that the TAP is maintaining an average of 94-97% S02 during the night. With a few dips of a few SECONDS down to 92% occasionally. This is pretty much a match to my results with CPAP, but the TAP is much more comfortable FOR ME, and certainly easier to travel with.

MandoJohnny wrote:What I have read about these dental appliances is that they are not as effective as XPAP and they have problems of their own.

Yes, the TAP and any other dental devices do have problems of their own. But so does cpap treatment, to the tune of almost half the people prescribed cpap dropping out.

Have you read the before/after PSG results that have been reported by some of the people on the TAS dental sleep medicine forum? A Guest posted a link to the discussions.

TAP, especially used along with the Pillar Procedure, is working (proven by "after" PSG's) for several people posting on that forum. And it doesn't have to apply only to "mild" diagnoses. What seems to matter more is WHAT area is causing OSA for an individual. Holding the lower jaw forward (tongue going along for the ride with it) during the night with the TAP and stiffening the soft palate (Pillars) is working very well indeed for several who went about their treatment methodically and have been tested to be sure the TAP/Pillar combo is getting the job done. At least one of them that I recall had a "moderate", not mild, diagnosis.

Personally, I get along fine with cpap and have no issues with the mask I've been using for over a year. I'm very comfortable and well treated with cpap. I have no desire to look into TAP or Pillar procedure or any other alternate treatment method for myself. But I'm always interested in reading about other treatments for OSA. I do believe that a TAP device really is a good answer for some people. I think snork1 is a case in point, if the TAP continues to suit him as well as it's doing so far.

Several years ago, the first REMstar Auto I bought was a private purchase from a woman on the TAS message board. She had been struggling with cpap for over a year and had accumulated the software, heated hose, a dozen or more masks (good ones)... you name it.

When I saw her posts about finally getting restful sleep by using a TAP (she had overnight oximetry proving her O2 levels were staying up great, just like snork's results) that's when I began reading more about how/why a dental device can work for some people. Lucky for me, she was willing to sell me all her cpap stuff for a very reasonable price.

As I said, I'm not looking to get a dental device to hold my jaw forward. Autopap suits me fine. But I wouldn't discount TAP (and probably some other devices dental devices.) They can be just as effective a means of treatment as cpap for some OSA sufferers.

Does it really matter which of two treatment method a person tries first -- cpap or dental applicance -- if they are at least trying something proven in some cases to get the job done non-invasively (TAP) or reversibly (Pillar) and are willing to have follow-up oximetry and PSG tests to be certain they are getting truly effective non-cpap treatment?

I wouldn't rely much on even a "good" sleep doctor to steer a likely candidate toward a TAP device or Pillar/TAP combo. I think most sleep doctors are going to prescribe what they have the most experience with -- cpap treatment.

A friend showed me her dental positioner. It's a SOMNOMED. Anyone know anything about this positioner? Right now her SaO2 is running 85% so she has an appt to get the thing adjusted. The dentist says he will have her at 95% when he finishes the adjustments.

I've been trying to use CPAP for almost two years now. The biggest problem I have is that in order to try out a new mask, I have to purchase it and maybe it's just me but they are not reasonably priced. I can't afford to try several different ones. I used the pillows, however, I am awakened several times during the night by either one of the nasal pillows slipping to one side or another or to have humidity condensed in the hose and it's making a gurgly, slurpy sound. So here I am awake yet again, and I'm not getting any younger so I need to visit the restroom. In order to do that I have to take the darn thing completely off, and when I am done have to turn the light on and wake my husband to get set up again. Then I lay there for an hour trying to go back to sleep. I have severe sleep apnea and was hoping to try this TAP appliance. But from what I am reading here it is not for severe sleep apnea cases. I visited with a dentist who specializes in this and of course, he assures me that he can provide some relief. Maybe not 100% but an improvement. Any suggestions or comments? I would appreciate it.

my husband had a similar device, very expensive, he hated it, and the puppy ate it, so that was the end of that..

but, I have learned that if I set my teeth on top of each other to either side or a bit forward, this pretty much has the same effect
as a mouth piece.. and I do that before I go to sleep, and I wake up with my teeth in one of those positions..

the reason I like doing this better than having a mouth piece, is that I can change bite positions thru the night, and not irratate my jaw or get
tmj.. or just rest it for awhile too.. I realized I could do this after a few weeks of taping my mouth shut.... pretty soon I didnt need the tape
anymore, and since I was keeping my mouth shut, I could try these different teeth setting positions..

its been working great for me.

Its amazing what you can train yourself to do while you are sleeping.. but really when you think about it, we all seem to know where the edge of
the bed of is while we are sleeping, or we would all end up on the floor in the morning!

I am not a mouth breather, I keep my mouth closed all night. I am however, a horrible, horrible teeth grinder. As a matter of fact, I am almost at the point of having to have caps because I have worn all the enamel off of most of my teeth. So, I don't think I can train myself to keep my mouth in any position. But it is an interesting concept. Thanks!

Lmuzz wrote:I've been trying to use CPAP for almost two years now. The biggest problem I have is that in order to try out a new mask, I have to purchase it and maybe it's just me but they are not reasonably priced. I can't afford to try several different ones. I used the pillows, however, I am awakened several times during the night by either one of the nasal pillows slipping to one side or another or to have humidity condensed in the hose and it's making a gurgly, slurpy sound. So here I am awake yet again, and I'm not getting any younger so I need to visit the restroom. In order to do that I have to take the darn thing completely off, and when I am done have to turn the light on and wake my husband to get set up again. Then I lay there for an hour trying to go back to sleep. I have severe sleep apnea and was hoping to try this TAP appliance. But from what I am reading here it is not for severe sleep apnea cases. I visited with a dentist who specializes in this and of course, he assures me that he can provide some relief. Maybe not 100% but an improvement. Any suggestions or comments? I would appreciate it.

Bless your sweet heart, you need some more education about CPAP.

First, I have been getting up once almost every night for the last five years and never take the mask off. I have a hose connector that allows me to easily disconnect and reconnect the hose from the machine. I just wrap the hose around my neck and make my trip. I never take that mask off at night because the activity of taking it off and putting it back on will make you more alert and less likely to fall back to sleep quickly.

Second, you have "rainout" in your hose and there are plenty of easy, cheap fixes for that. Just make a new post asking for help.

You already have the accomplishment of using CPAP for two years, don't turn back now. Register for the forum, fill out you equipment profile, and get help from other patients to make your CPAP therapy easy and effective!

(Wearing an oral device is no cup of tea and they usually leave some unresolved levels of apnea.)

I have a TAP ( Thorton Adjustable Positioner) for 10 yrs. now
Have felt great. BUT if you do not do the exercises that they tell you to do FAITHFULLY........ your lower jaw will PERMANENTLY move & stay forward.
That is where I am at now.
My lower jaw has moved permanently and I want to give my jaw a break so I went for a sleep study and got the CPAP.
I have been faithful with the CPAP for 8 days.
Scores are good.
BUT I am still waking up tired because I can not get more than 6 hours of sleep on it.
I started taking naps with my TAP because I can not function on only 6 hours and found when I did nap with it I could not get my mouth in the TAP because my jaw was not comfortable where I had it for 10 yrs because my jaw started to move back a bit.
A good sign , this is what I was hoping for.
My recent sleep study with the TAP was good ,but indicated that I probably should tighten it up more.
Not doing it. My lower jaw has moved so much that my front teeth no longer are over my bottom teeth.

I am not giving up on the CPAP!