Newbie, second post, F&P Icon +

That to all who replied to my first post, very helpful... I am grateful.

Based on that, I concluded the machine I wanted to get was an Airsense 10 auto for Her. I originally was diagnosed to AHI 25 by a sleep study from my cardiologist, a couple of week ago. I am having significant arrhythmias. I decided to pursue my APAP through a local pulmonologist, since APAP is not a central part of the cardiologist practice.
In my first meeting with him today, he prefers the F&P Icon +. Does anyone have experience? I researched it a bit and it seems to do the critical stuff: it is an APAP, full data, works with sleepyhead, good humidifier, and exhalation pressure relief. But I don't know how good their algorithm is.
I am not sure I want to push back on the first step of my process with the doctor, which is the base machine selection, but does anyone have experience that says I should push for my first choice, the Airsense 10 auto? I would want to give him reasons if I do. The F&P does have 215 reviews on cpap.com and it gets a 4.8. I will keep searching for info on the forum, but I would like to get back to him soon, before he submits the request to the insurance company, if there is reason to change.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Michael

I did just find this, which is a year old, that compares them...

Bye bye F&P ICON+ Auto, hello AS 10 AutoSet!
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=107877&p=1028886&hi ... +#p1028886

Who is actually doing the supplying? Is it the doctor/office doing the requesting to the insurance company?
Meaning...is your doctor a supplier of cpap equipment from his office?
Or is he sending the order to a brick and mortar DME office that will be doing the supplying?
Normally it is the DME who submits the paperwork so they get paid for a machine they dispense and not the doctor doing the paperwork for the machine payment.

Pugsy,
thanks for your reply.

The doctor will submit (fax) a prescription and sleep study to CareCentrix, who is the Sleep Apnea administrator for Cigna (my insurance). They will respond to the fax by assigning a local DME. The doctor said he was hopeful the insurance would not be prescriptive enough to want to pick the actual device, I think he plans to specify his preference. Whether the DME/insurance will respect that is beyond my level of experience. I really don't know where in this process I am supposed to get my preference heard. It is one level more complicated than usual with the addition of CareCentrix as a 3rd party administrator.

Here are a couple relevant URLs about CareCentrix/Cigna
http://www.carecentrix.com/Our-Products ... /About-SMS
https://cigna.sleepccx.com/ProviderPortal/homePage.do


thank-you again for your help

Insurance companies rarely ever care about the brand or model device.
They go by HCPCS billing codes.
DMEs care though because they make more profit on the machines that they get a wholesale cost on that is less than other brands.

The HCPCS billing codes are very simple and insurance companies pay X amount (depends on your insurance plan/coverage) for that particular HCPCS code no matter the brand or whether its a fixed cpap or apap machine.

FWIW...I would push for the ResMed when the other choice is the F & P.
I wouldn't care what the doctor preferred because he won't be the one using it.

The lack of temperature control on the heated hose ...that alone would be a deal breaker for me.
The warm air feels pretty good in the winter but it doesn't feel nearly so good in the summer.
I am using a ResMed machine now (the older S9 series) with the heated hose and the humidity selection is superior to F & P plus I can use 80 degrees in the winter (my house gets cold) and in the summer I pretty much use around 66 degrees. 80 degrees in the summer would be almost like breathing hot air...not comfortable.

Since I had to research and do this comparison for myself, I decide to post it. It is partially from a previous Sept 2015 post and partially from internet research today. The ICON+ reviews very well on CPAP.com but that is comparing mostly to older machines and non-auto. When stacked against the Airsense 10 Auto, it does not do as well. As such, I am going to ask my doctor, tomorrow, for the Airsense, even though he prefers the F&P. I believe he intends to put the model on the prescript to the DME. Since this is from research instead of experience, it may not be 100%.

Differences of Resmed Airsense 10 for Her, vs F&P Icon +

Market Preference: On CPAP.com, 6% of APAP users buy the ICON/ICON-Plus, 18% buy the Airsense Auto

No EPR or C-flex/Aflex on ICON: The SenseAwake feature on the ICON reduces pressure when it senses you are awakening. It reduces the pressure to help you get back to sleep. It is essentially a middle of the night ramp feature. It does not lessen it on each exhale, like Resmed or Respironics.

Adjustable hose temperature --- Can't adjust the hose temperature on the F&P ICON Auto, but you can on the AS10 (with the additional purchase of the ClimateLine Air heated hose). You can select a temp setting. The F&P ICON has an available heated hose, but you can't regulate its temperature at all. The temperature control for the hose is a must. But people claim it works well with no condensation.

LCD Screen/Menu: The screen, menu structure and icons on the Airsense are much more intuitive, not even close. The F&P ICON Auto has a very clumsy, non-intuitive menu design, with no color. Tiny print when used. I am not sure you can even call it a menu, it is mostly non-intuitive icons. (Maybe they were proud of that and that is where they got the name, but it does not work for me)

USB stick instead of SD card: With the USB stick, you need to sneaker-net the data over to the computer to use in SleepyHead. On Airsense, one can do it wirelessly using Toshiba FlashAir SD card. The USB stick is proprietary; you cannot use any USB nor increase your data storage. If you buy the Smart Stick studio s/w separately, you can download your own songs to wake up to when using the alarm clock function. I believe they both work reasonably equivalently with SleepyHead. I saw an old claim that (F&P) puts restriction on data transfer so end users cannot transfer data from USB stick (locked off, only available to a healthcare provider) to computer. But I have seen later claims that data can be sent to SleepyHead.

Noise: The Icon is rated at 29DB vs 26.5 for Airsense. But people also say the air-hose for the Icon is harder material and makes more noise. However, both are pretty quiet.

Mask fit sensor --- F&P ICON Auto doesn’t have it, but the AS10 will. Green and red faces on the AS10 indicate proper or poor mask fit. The AS10 also lets you designate what type of mask you're using. You can also run a manual mask fit program.

AS10 For Her has an extra algorithm. From the ResMed website: "A standard algorithm responds after 3 flow limited breaths and will move up by as much as 3 cm/h20. The “For Her” algorithm responds after just 1 flow limited breath and will move up by as much as 2.5 cm/h20. You can choose the standard algorithm or the “for Her” algorithm regardless of gender.

Ramp features on AS10 are miles better --- It's a comfort feature that allows for a much lower pressure when you're trying to fall asleep. The F&P ICON Auto has a ramp, but it can't be adjusted, except to turn it on or off. It's fixed for 20 minutes, and after that it will ramp up slowly to your prescribed pressure. The AS10 has AutoRamp technology that will stay at the low pressure until it senses you've fallen asleep, then it will ramp up slowly. Or, if you prefer to turn it off auto, you can set the ramp yourself for a fixed period of time from 5 to 45 minutes. Additionally, the AS10 allows you to set the pressure at which the ramp starts (sometimes a pressure too low can make you feel like you're suffocating). The F&P ICON Auto ramp starts at the larger of either 4cm/h20 or 1/3 of your prescribed pressure.

No auto on-off for Icon: Airsense will sense you putting on the mask and after 2 breaths, it will turn on by itself. Auto off also.

Superior Humidifier: the Icon has the reputation for the best humidifier on the market. Top rack dishwasher safe reservoir. Electronics well protected from humidifier section. 21 humidity settings, the most on the market. The Airsense has auto humidity, not sure how good it is. Also has manual, 7 levels.

Power supply integrated into unit: Airsense has separate power brick (yuk for traveling). ICON power is integrated into base unit.

No Humidifier Pre-heat on ICON: You cannot start the warming of the humidifier before turning on the blower of the unit as you can with the Airsense (up to 30 minutes early)

See-through water chamber. On the AS10 the water chamber is attached to the side of the machine, and you can view the water level. The water chamber on the F&P ICON Auto is inside the machine, out of view.

Alarm clock. The F&P ICON Auto has one, with 10 minute snooze feature and even allows you to save music files onto the USB card to wake up to.

Cost. As of right now ICON is roughly $300-400 less expensive in the US.

Thankyou for this post. It has helped me see the difference between the two machines.

I posted earlier today - I'm a newbie also - with a question about how to extract the data from the F & P machine. I'm trialling it at present - and like it better than the Dreamstation - but I hate the controls! The ResMed may be a good option for me!