Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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RogerSC
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Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by RogerSC » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:09 pm

Latest in Dr. Stephen Y. Park's Breath Better, Sleep Better, Live Better series of podcasts:

Podcast #17: Brain Damage And Sleep Apnea – Interview with Dr. Ronald Harper
http://doctorstevenpark.com/harper?inf_ ... ac6770817a

Listened to this podcast and found it really interesting and informative.

Enjoy it!

MrGrumpy
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by MrGrumpy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:21 pm

Ive long suspected this. Its common sense. I think most of the medical community is sweeping this under their medical rug. Admitting it would dampen the pharmaceutical industry a lot, additionally the insurance industry would not like all the people clamoring to get sleep studies and CPAP treatment if the medical community went wide open with this claim.

Honestly, its what Ive been privately going by for years. Probably a third to half of my problems are from sleep apnea induced brain damage, not nearly as severe as a stroke or parkinsons or anything of that nature, but as a former professional Lifeguard, I learned decades ago it does not take much hypoxia to induce a "dumbing down" and brain damage to varying degrees. Additionally, chronic sleep deprivation there is no telling what that REALLY DOES to the brain.

psychiatry also has a lot to lose potentially, if this were to be pushed hard. As psychiatry is built totally around pharmaceuticals and talk psychotherapy.
Id be dead by now if I didn't use my CPAP gear every night.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:32 pm

MrGrumpy wrote: I think most of the medical community is sweeping this under their medical rug.
lol

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70sSanO
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by 70sSanO » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:17 am

Really interesting podcast. I have always thought that there is a connection between alzheimers/dementia and OSA/UARS. While the podcast didn't specifically state that relationship it did provide areas of the brain that are impacted and the hippocampus seems to relate to memory loss and the onset of dementia.

However, I was very disappointed in the use of exercising the upper airway muscles to reduce OSA. There was even the mention of the use of a didgeridoo. I realize that these are experts in this field, but while these exercises may help with some of the severity of OSA, I think too many people will quickly jump on some alternative treatment to avoid the use of xPAP. Exercise in conjunction with xPAP is probably a better way to present the situation.

My wife and I are in a neighborhood Bible study and one of the people I have known for years has been diagnosed with OSA and her father has dementia. Last week she said that she can't get the mask to work right and she hasn't been able to replicate the refreshed feeling she had at the study. She can get a different mask, but she would have to drive 15 miles and doesn't want to, so she said she is over it. Sounds pretty familiar to some of the things on this forum. She will drive 500 miles to see one of her kids or grandkids but not 15 to save her life. I was going to send her the link, but I'm sure all she will hear will be doing exercises and she will drive 50 miles to buy a didgeridoo.

On an unrelated note... every time I see a post by ChicagoGranny I want to thank her for advice she gave a couple of years ago to another person on using a cervical collar while waiting to get an xPAP machine. From that advice I started using a collar with my CPAP and the results have been night and day. The doctors dismiss my using it, but it works for me and it is a part of my daily treatment, so thanks again!

John
AHI: 2.5
Central: 1.7
Obstructive: 0.3
Hypopnea: 0.5
Pressure: 6.0-8.0cm on back with cervical collar.
Compliance: 15 Years

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:26 am

70sSanO wrote:every time I see a post by ChicagoGranny I want to thank her for advice she gave a couple of years ago to another person on using a cervical collar while waiting to get an xPAP machine. From that advice I started using a collar with my CPAP and the results have been night and day.
Glad to hear your good results!

Telling on myself, I usually sleep straight through the night. Monday night I woke at 2:00 and again at 4:00. This did not seem right. When I got up at 7:00, I saw my spinal collar lying on the dresser. I forgot to put it on. Beside the awakenings, my AHI was 4.0 when it is usually 2.0 or under.

No great harm, but Tuesday my energy level was a little low. I don't want to forget that collar again!

davep700
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by davep700 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:43 am

I would ask about who needs a cervical collar, but that would send the thread off topic.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:12 pm

davep700 wrote:I would ask about who needs a cervical collar, but that would send the thread off topic.
It's an easy answer: You don't know until you try.

1)If you try one and your AHI and/or pressure needs are significantly lower over a couple of weeks, it's helping!

2)If you use a FFM because you mouthbreathe and you try a cervical collar and find that mouthbreathing and/or dry mouth is reduced significantly, it's helping!

Only you will know. Cheap experiment - less than ten bucks.

davep700
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by davep700 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:47 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:Probably a third to half of my problems are from sleep apnea induced brain damage
What stick of measure do you use to make that claim?

Noctuary
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by Noctuary » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:30 pm

What does the collar do? Is if for sleeping on your back?

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70sSanO
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by 70sSanO » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:32 pm

Since I brought this up, I'll answer.

I've lost a lot of weight a few years ago and have kept if off (hooray!). As I lost weight, my numbers were getting worse... higher AHI, longer events, de-sat problems, etc. Showed my Rescan data to my doctor who recommended a new sleep study and thought that I might need an ASV due to the number of centrals.

It was 2 years ago when I went in for a sleep study and my pressure dropped from around 11 to around 5 or 6 per the study. When I got home, I started to run the lower pressure and while my numbers were a little better my AHI, I think, was still around 7 or 8. Made an appointment to talk to the sleep doctor (not my doctor), but before I saw him I had read ChicagoGranny's post on the cervical collar.

So I go in to see the "specialist" and showed him my twenty-seven pages of Rescan data with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, and he looked at them and said... kid, I want you to go over and sit down on that bench that says Group W. Which I did and then he proceeded to tell me that my data was worthless and that they used the gold standard. And then I told him about the cervical collar and why I thought it worked and the better results I was getting and he said I was mistaken and sent me on my way.

So with nothing more than my unscientific and unsupported thesis, I have been using my collar since then. Before I lost the weight my AHI was around 4 to 5. Since I have been wearing the cervical collar my AHI is usually in the 2's and have nights when I'm in the 1's. And my theory is... the loss of weight around my neck caused my head to tilt forward when I slept and the collar keeps it from doing so.

John
AHI: 2.5
Central: 1.7
Obstructive: 0.3
Hypopnea: 0.5
Pressure: 6.0-8.0cm on back with cervical collar.
Compliance: 15 Years

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Julie
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by Julie » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:34 pm

No, at least not particularly. It keeps your head up (vs squashed towards your chest) and that helps keep your airway larger, more clear, as well as helping your jaw to stay closed (tho' not your lips of course).

Noctuary
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by Noctuary » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:43 pm

Would one of those whiplash collars work? I've seen them at the grocery store.

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Julie
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by Julie » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:48 pm

No, they're larger, stiff and hard and altogether not suitable. Use soft cervical collar in Google and you'll get links to WalMart and Amazon, etc... can't give them to you because my system pulls up links for Canadian versions of those stores, with Can. pricing, etc.

Noctuary
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by Noctuary » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:51 pm

Julie wrote:No, they're larger, stiff and hard and altogether not suitable. Use soft cervical collar in Google and you'll get links to WalMart and Amazon, etc... can't give them to you because my system pulls up links for Canadian versions of those stores, with Can. pricing, etc.

Okay, thanks.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Brain Damage and Sleep Apnea: Dr. Ronald Harper

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:00 pm

Noctuary wrote:Would one of those whiplash collars work? I've seen them at the grocery store.
KISS.

http://www.amazon.com/Cervical-Collar-S ... cal+collar