V. Interesting re Insomnia

I haven't heard of any peer studies about SRT (sleep restriction therapy) or heard much about it, other than some bloggers and a few members on CPAPtalk (years ago).

Anybody

Julie wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... on-therapy

Interesting or just plain stupid.

This article will appeal to people who are too lazy to change their lifestyle problems that contribute to sleep problems. Lifestyle problems such as sedentarianism, high caloric intake, alcohol intake, OTC drugs, too much caffeine, obesity, lack of fresh air and sunshine, etc.

Sir NoddinOff wrote:I haven't heard of any peer studies about SRT (sleep restriction therapy) or heard much about it, other than some bloggers and a few members on CPAPtalk (years ago).

Anybody

I have the same questions SNO. Supposedly, it is very effective but I have never seen any links to studies that prove this to be the case.

49er

Except that sleep deprivation reduces brain regeneration. So you get a bunch of half brain dead people.

BlackSpinner wrote:Except that sleep deprivation reduces brain regeneration. So you get a bunch of half brain dead people.

I got an immediate image of the various folks working in and running our government.........


Den

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SRT is one of several keys of cognitive behavioral modification for insomnia.
In this scenario, it is not intended to be permanent, but a tool to help direct sleep toward a more appropriate time, etc.
It is, of course, the most controversial part of the therapy.
The therapy is stressed as to be done under close, professional supervision. (Should I have used a few $$$$?)

Insomnia is one of those words that is a catch-all for just about any time one can't sleep. In discussion of insomnia it helps to be clear which subset of sleep issues we have. Like whether our body clock has been shifted later, or if we can't sleep enough at ANY time, or when sleep is fragmented, or when it is a medication side effect, or due to a mood or medical disorder, or... This article seems to be primarily about initiating sleep.

Never was very deliberate on the timing. but I did find out that for me, straightening out my inability to go to sleep at a desired earlier time is best done on the morning end. Just going to bed earlier didn't work for me without bringing other factors into play, especially forced early rising. I simply cannot sleep all morning, nap all evening, then expect to fall asleep at a decent time. However, if I stayed up real late I would fall asleep quickly, and could stay asleep longer. When I was still working, that was just not a viable option. I remember discussion on here that helped me learn to sleep better again. Of course treating my sleep disorders was first before I had any success on this. And I learned a bit about how the timing of eating affects our body clock, and that resetting an out-of-kilter clock is multi-faceted. For the most part this article makes sense to me. For me, a forced early rising was the first and non-negotiable step. After 2-3 days of early rising and no naps, I found I would naturally get very sleepy around 9 or 10pm, and once I heeded nature's call, I was back on schedule. Going to bed later does not throw me off, but allowing myself to get up later ruins me every time.

The five hour restriction is the part I never focused on, maybe because resisting discipline is a character trait (flaw?). Leaving myself wiggle room has probably been the demise of so many of my good intentions. Realizing that, I can only say that being more purposed when attempting sleep restriction is probably a good thing. I'd be interested in hearing the stories of anyone who tries this. I'm about due for another body clock reset. Thanks for posting the article.

Whenever I read or hear "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger"--Nietszche-- I want to puke. (the authors of the linked-to article quote this.) It's always a sign of lazy thinking, or not thinking at all. Here's more advice from Nietszche: stop quoting me or anyone else and get your own ideas!

The rational response to almost passing away is to realize how vulnerable you are. this is likely to change your relationship to other people and life in general. Hopefully you cherish life in a new way; maybe you have a religious conversion that deepens your sense of existence. "Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger" is a way of avoiding facing your own mortality: you imagine that you're never going to die, but go from strength to strength forever.

Nietszche spent the last 30 years of his life in an insane asylum being attended to by nurses that fed him and changed his diapers--true. His insanity didn't kill him and it didn't make him stronger. Ah, the ironies of life.

sorry for the thread drift. I suppose making yourself stay awake until you're so sleep deprived that you will sleep, no questions asked, is one possible route to dealing with insomnia. but have your tried exercise?

hegel wrote:Whenever I read or hear "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger" I want to puke. It's always a sign of lazy thinking, or not thinking at all.

Thank your for saying that, Hegel.

hegel wrote:Whenever I read or hear "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger"--Nietszche-- I want to puke...

Interesting to hear another perspective on this saying. When a saying gets misapplied to the point of sounding trite it can become like fingernails on a chalkboard. What I can say is that each time I "made it through" there were gains in some areas, even if not the area under attack. Don't know that this necessarily means I'm stronger, but I like this person who is wiser, emboldened, more self aware, and more in tune to others than before the experiences. Of course there were ways in which that which didn't kill me left me shattered and a shell of my former self, so the quote doesn't always fit. But overall, if it helps someone cope with life's challenges, I'm not offended.

I think it's like saying 'Time heals all wounds'. It doesn't, but what you do with the time may help. If you do nothing to make yourself stronger after a crisis, you'll end up stuck forever.

hegel wrote:Whenever I read or hear "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger"--Nietszche-- I want to puke. (the authors of the linked-to article quote this.) It's always a sign of lazy thinking, or not thinking at all. Here's more advice from Nietszche: stop quoting me or anyone else and get your own ideas!

I should be able to lift tall buildings!
No it doesn't make you stronger and it often gives you PTSD!
Yes I have a few more insights into things but I was a lot more functional before shit hit the fan.

I nearly died at 13 - it made me over cautious and avoid things I shouldn't. It made me far more intellectual and avoiding inter action with "the world"

There used to be a saying "No pain, no gain" another disastrous saying. You have pain for a reason and that is to warn you that you are in a danger zone.

"No pain no gain". I came back from a backpacking trip once in a lot of pain, as usual. I quoted this saying to my neighbor, who replied " no pain...no pain". So that's my new mantra. Yes, pain is an indicator that you're doing something wrong.

It's true that the bromide about what doesn't kill you...etc. can be taken in a lot of contexts, some of which make sense. One could argue that working with an awareness of the vulnerability of life can bring a new maturity and eventually strength. Psychological/spiritual growth necessarily comes from an awareness of mortality. This brings a kind of strength. But not the kind that Nietszche would approve of!