Oldie with a question

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knothead
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Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:06 am

If I wanted to do what is called "pass over" how would I cut off the humidity? Is there a setting in the clinical menu or just lower my setting on the home page to zero. I want to try this because I seem to not cough as much with lower humidity. I have sarcoidosis in my lungs and have been playing with the humidity settings up & down trying to find a happy medium, so far I'm down to a 2 setting and was just wondering how to turn completely off....!

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SGearhart
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by SGearhart » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:22 am

Since you're using a Climateline hose, you may only see the temp setting if you're using it in the default(Auto) mode. You will need to go into Clinician menu and set the Climateline mode from "Auto" to "Manual". This will allow you to set the humidity level, as well as the temperature. You can then adjust the temp and humidity from the Operations menu by scrolling down below the "1" setting to "Off". Another thought that might work is to set the Climateline hose to its lowest temp setting.

I hope this helps.

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Pugsy
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Pugsy » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:38 am

SGearhart wrote:Another thought that might work is to set the Climateline hose to its lowest temp setting.
Nope, won't do it. The idea behind the automatic setting where all a person adjusts is the temperature is to maintain 80% (on the S9) at whatever temperature is selected.
So lowering the temperature to the lowest setting doesn't affect the humidity being delivered when using the automatic setting. Now of course rain out chances increases with a lower temp setting but it might not happen...I am doing it now with my S9....using 66 degrees I think it is and still using automatic humidity delivery because my nose needs lots of moisture. I still use a lot of water some nights and not much on others depending on the ambient humidity and so far no rain out because the house is warm enough as it is. That trick doesn't work in the winter when the house is kept a lot cooler.

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knothead
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:50 am

SGearhart wrote:Since you're using a Climateline hose, you may only see the temp setting if you're using it in the default(Auto) mode. You will need to go into Clinician menu and set the Climateline mode from "Auto" to "Manual". This will allow you to set the humidity level, as well as the temperature. You can then adjust the temp and humidity from the Operations menu by scrolling down below the "1" setting to "Off". Another thought that might work is to set the Climateline hose to its lowest temp setting.

I hope this helps.
Thanks,
I forgot to say I am using in manual mode so I can change settings. Sounds like I just need to lower the setting to zero and go from there...thanks again.

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knothead
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:58 am

Pugsy wrote:
SGearhart wrote:Another thought that might work is to set the Climateline hose to its lowest temp setting.
Nope, won't do it. The idea behind the automatic setting where all a person adjusts is the temperature is to maintain 80% (on the S9) at whatever temperature is selected.
So lowering the temperature to the lowest setting doesn't affect the humidity being delivered when using the automatic setting. Now of course rain out chances increases with a lower temp setting but it might not happen...I am doing it now with my S9....using 66 degrees I think it is and still using automatic humidity delivery because my nose needs lots of moisture. I still use a lot of water some nights and not much on others depending on the ambient humidity and so far no rain out because the house is warm enough as it is. That trick doesn't work in the winter when the house is kept a lot cooler.
Thanks Pugsy, I tried this also several times, lowering temp in Auto mode. Mine started rain out around 72 deg setting. Living in humid climate may have affected it also. So now I'm going to try the pass over thing. My Sarc Dr said it shouldn't have any thing to do with humidity, but it sure seems to help with the coughing with low humidity...Trial & error...

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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Pugsy » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:27 am

knothead wrote:Mine started rain out around 72 deg setting.
I don't have it happen during the summer but then my house isn't nearly as cool (even with AC on) than it is in the winter when I not only have to lower the thermostat (old house with poor insulation so impossible to keep very warm) but my bedroom has 2 windows and one faces north so it's always colder in my bedroom than it is where the thermostat is.

Good luck on your pass over experiment but yes...to get true pass over when the heated hose is attached you have to be set to manual and have the humidity portion turned off but then you can still use whatever hose air temp is comfortable for you.
Bear in mind that rain out can still occur if the conditions are ripe for it at the mask level due to the moisture in our own exhaled breath. Using pass over humidity doesn't guarantee no rain out at the mask level.

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knothead
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:58 am

Pugsy wrote:
knothead wrote:Mine started rain out around 72 deg setting.
I don't have it happen during the summer but then my house isn't nearly as cool (even with AC on) than it is in the winter when I not only have to lower the thermostat (old house with poor insulation so impossible to keep very warm) but my bedroom has 2 windows and one faces north so it's always colder in my bedroom than it is where the thermostat is.

Good luck on your pass over experiment but yes...to get true pass over when the heated hose is attached you have to be set to manual and have the humidity portion turned off but then you can still use whatever hose air temp is comfortable for you.
Bear in mind that rain out can still occur if the conditions are ripe for it at the mask level due to the moisture in our own exhaled breath. Using pass over humidity doesn't guarantee no rain out at the mask level.


Thanks Pugsy, I was thinking this was the way to do it, now I will try for sure.

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Luthie2006
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Luthie2006 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:47 am

Pugsy I am trying this "passover humdification" as well and getting nasally stuffy. But I thought to have true passover humidifcation, the Climate Control hose has to be set at off as well? So humidity "Off", and hose air temp, "Off" as well? No?

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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Pugsy » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:03 am

Luthie2006 wrote:But I thought to have true passover humidifcation, the Climate Control hose has to be set at off as well? So humidity "Off", and hose air temp, "Off" as well? No?
I don't see why the hose air temp has to be "off" to get pass over humidification.
While it's true that air temp matters in terms of how much moisture the air can hold...the amount of moisture obtained using pass over only is going to be very minimal and I don't think that having it "off" in terms of temp is going to make that much difference anyway. Maybe (going way out on a long skinny limb here) if the air temp is a bit warmer the air could hold more moisture but that doesn't automatically mean that it would pick up more moisture as it passes over the water. We are talking very small amounts of added moisture here.

In terms of temp..I mention it mainly for comfort and/or controlling rain out at the mask level.
Even with pass over humidification (or no humidifier use at all) a person can have condensation at the mask level simply from the moisture in our own exhaled breath so having a bit of added warmth via the hose air could potentially help in that regard. If the conditions are just right we can experience condensation in the mask and it's highly annoying when it happens.

From a physics stand point...warmer air "can" hold more moisture but I don't know if it necessarily will pick up more moisture in the first place.
I suppose that a person could try both ways and see what happens...warm the air a bit and not warm the air and see if it makes any real difference. Or maybe if someone had some sort of device to actually measure the humidity in the air at the mask with or without added warmth to hose air...they could figure it out more definitively.
I don't think that the amount of moisture in the air at this stage when using pass over only and no heat to the water chamber is going to make or break the deal.

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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Goofproof » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:35 pm

With everything off, passover will be using room air temp + a little from the xpap to pick up moisture from the water. It won't be a lot of moisture, just some.

No heated hose on mine, for the last 2 years I've been leaving the water out of the HH completely, and it turned off. It acts like a noise muffler, a little! Jim
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by PoolQ » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:13 pm

IMHO there are two things going on here.

you have the water tank temperature, there is a metal plate under the tank that can be heated or cooled, the amount of moisture provided depends on the temperature of the water in the tank, as controlled by this plate.

rainout is caused by this warm, moist air coming from the tank into a hose that is at a cooler temperature and condensing out on the inside of the hose. With a climate line hose you heat the hose, not the air inside, so that the water does not condense out. Insulating the hose in a cold room does much the same thing, the warm, moist air does not see a cooler hose.

With climate line and auto, the system measures the humidity and temperature of the air in the hose, then adjusts the hose temperature to not cause rainout.

if you have the water tank temperature set to less than room temperature you will get passive humidity at a lower level than if you had the tank temperature control turned off and the air will be cooler. Depending on the room humidity you may actually be reducing the air humidity in this condition as the room air passes over the cooler water in the tank, some will condense out (tank rainout).

This is the same effect as lake effect snow and air blowing over warm water (the tank) then dumping rain over the colder land (the hose).
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by CPAPIST » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:45 am

knothead wrote:If I wanted to do what is called "pass over" how would I cut off the humidity? Is there a setting in the clinical menu or just lower my setting on the home page to zero. I want to try this because I seem to not cough as much with lower humidity. I have sarcoidosis in my lungs and have been playing with the humidity settings up & down trying to find a happy medium, so far I'm down to a 2 setting and was just wondering how to turn completely off....!

As an aside, if you don't intend to use the heat function on the heated hose, then put the heated hose in the drawer and use a regular hose. Heated hoses are more expensive and you may want to save the wear and tear in case you some day again desire a heated hose.
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knothead
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:17 am

CPAPIST wrote:
knothead wrote:If I wanted to do what is called "pass over" how would I cut off the humidity? Is there a setting in the clinical menu or just lower my setting on the home page to zero. I want to try this because I seem to not cough as much with lower humidity. I have sarcoidosis in my lungs and have been playing with the humidity settings up & down trying to find a happy medium, so far I'm down to a 2 setting and was just wondering how to turn completely off....!

As an aside, if you don't intend to use the heat function on the heated hose, then put the heated hose in the drawer and use a regular hose. Heated hoses are more expensive and you may want to save the wear and tear in case you some day again desire a heated hose.



If I remember correctly the regular non heating hose will not fit on the S9 humidifier. Someone may be along shortly to say YA or NA...

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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:22 am

knothead wrote:If I remember correctly the regular non heating hose will not fit on the S9 humidifier. Someone may be along shortly to say YA or NA...
That would be a "Nay"
Where did you get that idea?
You can use the other slimline hose that ResMed makes and it's non heated....you can even use a generic cheap 22 mm non heated hose that fits all the cpap machines in the world.
Just have to make sure that the hose diameter choice on the setup menu matches the hose diameter that you are using.

The coupling ends on all the machines (and masks) will fit all hoses no matter what the diameter of the hose itself.

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knothead
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Re: Oldie with a question

Post by knothead » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:27 am

Read it somewhere Pugsy on this forum. I was trying to find it...maybe it was one of my good dreams...

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