Klonopin withdrawl

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Dogjudge
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Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Dogjudge » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:48 am

Well, it has been over a year now since I started with my CPAP machine.

For nearly the first six months things weren't getting any better. After discussions with my sleep doc, GP and psych doc (I'm bipolar and take lamictal, 300 mg/day), they ALL recommended taking Klonopin to eliminate me waking in the middle of the night (3-4 times). Ended up at 2 mg/night before going to bed.

Last 4 months have been okay. Not always great, but a lot better than it was before January.

A couple of questions.

With everything as is, I was running an AHI in the range of 1.0. (Hypopnea appears to be the primary driver of restful or not restful nights). While I would like to get this down even more, if it's possible, I've thought about the klonopin more and more. My thinking is that my body is now somewhat used to getting sleep, i.e. my behavior, that it's time to get rid of the klonopin.

My plan is to cut the dosage by 0.25 mg every two weeks. Any comments about that? Since I have a degree in chemistry, I know how to do titrations and could cut it by less.

Secondly. What type of sleep side effects should I be looking for? I'm assuming that my AHI will go up some, but as long as I'm still feeling rested in the morning, I feel that the risk versus the reward is worth the poorer sleep until I'm off 100%.

I realize we're talking about 2 months, but I want to hear if anyone feels that's too quick. Rather be cautious given everything that I've heard about klonopin withdrawal.

As usual. Thanks ahead of time.

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49er
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by 49er » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:03 am

Dogjudge wrote:Well, it has been over a year now since I started with my CPAP machine.

For nearly the first six months things weren't getting any better. After discussions with my sleep doc, GP and psych doc (I'm bipolar and take lamictal, 300 mg/day), they ALL recommended taking Klonopin to eliminate me waking in the middle of the night (3-4 times). Ended up at 2 mg/night before going to bed.

Last 4 months have been okay. Not always great, but a lot better than it was before January.

A couple of questions.

With everything as is, I was running an AHI in the range of 1.0. (Hypopnea appears to be the primary driver of restful or not restful nights). While I would like to get this down even more, if it's possible, I've thought about the klonopin more and more. My thinking is that my body is now somewhat used to getting sleep, i.e. my behavior, that it's time to get rid of the klonopin.

My plan is to cut the dosage by 0.25 mg every two weeks. Any comments about that? Since I have a degree in chemistry, I know how to do titrations and could cut it by less.

Secondly. What type of sleep side effects should I be looking for? I'm assuming that my AHI will go up some, but as long as I'm still feeling rested in the morning, I feel that the risk versus the reward is worth the poorer sleep until I'm off 100%.

I realize we're talking about 2 months, but I want to hear if anyone feels that's too quick. Rather be cautious given everything that I've heard about klonopin withdrawal.

As usual. Thanks ahead of time.
Hi Dogjudge,

That might be too fast. I think alot of benzo boards recommend tapering 10% of current dose every 2 weeks at a minimum. Many benzo users have found they need to go alot more slowly and do the 10% cut every 4 weeks.

I know many people will say that is too slow of a rate but it just seems since you don't know how you are going to react to a cut initially, it might be better to be safe than sorry and go more slowly. And since you have BP, you don't want to risk a too fast of a cut messing up your sleep.

49er

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knothead
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by knothead » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:19 am

I was on 4 mg Xanax /day for panic, my doc took me of s-l-o-w-l-y, like .25 every 3 weeks. It took awhile but worked like a charm, now I only need to take them as needed....maybe .25 mg maybe 3 times a year. Just go slow, there's no hurry getting off...

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Dogjudge
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Dogjudge » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:24 am

Thanks to both of you.

Keep in mind that I'm currently on 2 mg. A 0.25 mg drop is just 12.5%.

Unless I start doing titrations, it's difficult since I currently have 1 mg tablets. Perhaps I should go to 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks.

The question I'm facing is how to recognize that I'm going to fast, or decreasing things too quickly? AHI shoots up?

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49er
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by 49er » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:48 am

Dogjudge wrote:Thanks to both of you.

Keep in mind that I'm currently on 2 mg. A 0.25 mg drop is just 12.5%.

Unless I start doing titrations, it's difficult since I currently have 1 mg tablets. Perhaps I should go to 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks.

The question I'm facing is how to recognize that I'm going to fast, or decreasing things too quickly? AHI shoots up?
HI DJ,

Not to be alarmist but this site has a good list of WD symptoms to be on the lookout for that would indicate you are going too fast.

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/benzod ... withdrawal

As an FYI, even if you go pretty slow, you won't escape having them. But the difference is usually, they don't last as long and are alot more mild.

When in doubt, slow the taper down. Better to be safe than sorry.

Dogjudge
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Dogjudge » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:27 am

Perhaps the best will be 0.25/mg per month.

Thanks for the list.

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49er
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by 49er » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:32 am

Dogjudge wrote:Perhaps the best will be 0.25/mg per month.

Thanks for the list.
You're welcome.

Sounds like a good plan.

joeljjk11
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by joeljjk11 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:51 am

I took Lamictal for many years. I did not realize how much of a zombie it made me until after I went off of it. I really hated that medication. Everyone is different though, if it works for you then all of the power to you.

Dogjudge
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Dogjudge » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm

Lamictal is the fourth drug I've used for bipolar. So far the only one that's been successful. Although the doctor has felt that I'm doing so well, he has me cutting that back.

cyclist56
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by cyclist56 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:02 pm

I've been taking .25mg for a week or so for leg movements and sleep. I'm going to try to skip a day now and then, maybe take half a dose at times, in order to avoid dependence. .25 mg seems to work for sleep. I have no idea about the leg movements because I'm asleep and unaware of them. Good luck with your withdrawal.

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:00 pm

Usually the last 10% to 25% is the toughest part from what Ive heard at Benzo Buddies etc. I personally would use your plan for the first half or two-thirds of your withdrawal (ie. per month), then eventually I'd slow it way down to 5% or less a week for the rest. I think your doctor may be able to give you progressively lower doses in a liquid form. Good luck and smooth sailing, therefore no need to titrate. I think you'll be glad you did it (eventually).

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Sheffey
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Sheffey » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:18 pm

Dogjudge wrote:that it's time to get rid of the klonopin.
While you may be comfortable with cpaptalk, this is not the best place to get that kind of advice. Instead, see what you find at http://www.psychforums.com/forum.html Search for threads on klonopin tapering and klonopin withdrawal.
Sheffey

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:22 pm

Sheffey wrote:
Dogjudge wrote:that it's time to get rid of the klonopin.
While you may be comfortable with cpaptalk, this is not the best place to get that kind of advice. Instead, see what you find at http://www.psychforums.com/forum.html Search for threads on klonopin tapering and klonopin withdrawal.
To a certain degree I think this advice is okay, however your physician is the person to talk to. If they want you to continue irregardless of your objections then get a second opinion from another doctor.

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Sheffey
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by Sheffey » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:30 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote:To a certain degree I think this advice is okay, however your physician is the person to talk to. If they want you to continue irregardless of your objections then get a second opinion from another doctor.
Oh, I agree the doctor should be involved up front.

But, just like cpaptalk has helped thousands where doctors couldn't or wouldn't, the psych meds forum can also help fill in where the medical profession is lacking.

I was taking a drug for RLS and decided to see if a smaller dose would be effective. Withdrawal symptoms hit me hard. The doc's office said there would be no withdrawal symptoms and the professional medical websites said no withdrawal symptoms.

The I went to one of the forums and dozens of patients told horrible studies of withdrawal symptoms and how they had to taper very gradually.

But still, you make a good point, Sir.
Sheffey

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kteague
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Re: Klonopin withdrawl

Post by kteague » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:32 pm

Dogjudge wrote:Lamictal is the fourth drug I've used for bipolar. So far the only one that's been successful. Although the doctor has felt that I'm doing so well, he has me cutting that back.
Just curious as this subject comes up from time to time. Did getting therapeutic treatment for your sleep apnea in any way affect your bipolar symptoms or medication needs?

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