Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Enchanter
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:34 am

Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:39 am

Sleep Apnea is an evergrowing disorder that has been getting more recognition over the years. Millions of people have sleep apnea. And a lot of people don't know they have it. I'm asking this question, because there's always that small chance I can find something that can save my life as well as others. Sleep Apnea is a hidden disorder that not everyone knows about. Are there any disorders in the body that give you similar symptoms of sleep apnea? For example, some people have thyroid conditions that cause them to feel tired.

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm preparing for the fact that I might not have OSA even though I always believed I had it. In fact years ago I suspected I had sleep apnea, but didn't even know there were tests for it. Instead, I was sold some kind of anti snoring. And in the event that I don't have it, I thought it wouldn't hurt if someone might just know another hidden disorder out there that other people were suffering from, behind the scenes. I know that some people can get very mad at my behavior. And I am sorry. But it would be worth it just in case it saved some lives. Always good to have a Plan B, a security blanket.

Just in case, something went missing and undiagnosed. The answer is sleep apnea for some. But for others it could be something else and in my case it's been a never ending quest of getting to the root of it. I'm not sure I'm going to be diagnosed with OSA. I'm going to call the doctors tomorrow and see if I can get a step further though.

Would there happen to be a condition out there that happens to be pretty under the radar but at the same time very similar to sleep apnea?
My Current Therapies
- CPAP + Humidifier
- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Julie » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:57 am

Many conditions have similar and overlapping signs and symptoms, but that's why lab tests are done, to match up (and rule out) specific ones that add up to - and only add up to - sleep apnea. If you choose to run the symptoms through all the internet sites that list symptoms of sleep related disorders and/or other conditions that overlap and mimic some of them, you can drive yourself crazy deciding you have any one of many conditions, but what's the point? Just wait a few hours and you'll have your answers.

User avatar
robysue
Posts: 7520
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY
Contact:

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by robysue » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:15 am

Enchanter wrote: The reason I'm asking this is because I'm preparing for the fact that I might not have OSA even though I always believed I had it. In fact years ago I suspected I had sleep apnea, but didn't even know there were tests for it.
Enchanter:

SLOW DOWN and STEP BACK from the worrying. You've had the sleep test, but you have NOT yet had a chance to talk to the doctor about the results of your sleep test.

Given the fact that the tech put the mask on your nose during the night, there is a very high probability that enough data was gathered to warrant diagnosing you with OSA.

Yes, I know you're going to say: But I didn't sleep at all during the sleep test and the tech was incompetent enough to think I was asleep when I wasn't or sleezy enough to not care about the fact that I was awake.

But until you look at the official results of your sleep test with an open mind you really have NO reason at all to be eliminating the possibility of OSA causing your symptoms.

If the sleep test shows you have OSA, you can either believe the test results and move onto figuring out how to make CPAP therapy work. Or you can decide to NOT believe anything the doctor tells you about the results, deny you have OSA, and continue a fruitless search for the cause of your symptoms until you die from some OSA-related comorbidity in your 50s or 60s.

If the sleep test winds up showing that you didn't sleep, then the test is inconclusive: If you didn't sleep, the test can't diagnose OSA but it also can't eliminate OSA. If you really didn't sleep at all, the data will show that, and in that case another sleep test should be done. Perhaps a home test would be more appropriate. That way you won't be able to blame the results on the tech ....
Are there any disorders in the body that give you similar symptoms of sleep apnea?
Sure there are. Some of them are central sleep apnea, upper airway resistance syndrome, periodic limb movement disorder, and plain old insomnia. All of which show up on a sleep test. And all but insomnia occur only when you are asleep.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5

yaconsult
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:43 pm
Location: "Silicon Valley", CA

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by yaconsult » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:35 am

Enchanter, my suggestion is to first make an appointment with your doctor to get the results of your sleep test.

Then, sit down and make up three big lists of questions to ask the doctor:
  • Questions to ask the doctor if he says that I have sleep apnea:

    Questions to ask the doctor if he says that I don't have sleep apnea:

    Questions to ask the doctor if he says that he doesn't know if I have sleep apnea:
Get it all down on paper and out of your mind. Go back through your list and rank the questions in order of importance of the answer to you. Rearrange your lists of questions to put them in that order.

Take your lists of questions with you to the appointment. Listen closely to what the doctor tells you about the sleep study and his diagnosis. Then, take out the appropriate list and start asking your questions from most to least important.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: January 2015 Sleep Study Results: Apnea/Hypopnea Index (AHI): 80.2, Sleepyhead

User avatar
Enchanter
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:34 am

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:08 pm

Sure I'm planning on calling today. But isn't the doc supposed to be call me? Isn't that how it normally works, yo?

Robysue, I always thought that the sleep problems were causing my problem. But didn't you also say that that just fixing the problem won't help with everything?
My Current Therapies
- CPAP + Humidifier
- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching

User avatar
Nick Danger
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:13 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Nick Danger » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:54 pm

As a practical matter, the tech at the sleep lab will need a few days to write the report and send it to your doctor. Some techs do this more quickly than others. When the report gets to the doctor's office it goes into your file. A good doctor will have a PA or trusted nurse review the reports as they are received and the reviewer will remind the doctor that he/she needs to call you. Eventually they will get around to it. If you call the doctor, he/she may get around to it sooner (as long as you don't make a pest of yourself - two calls a week do not make you a pest, two calls a day do...). Be respectful if they indicate that they haven't received the report and ask them when they expect it - don't make a big deal of this unless it has been more than a couple of weeks.

It is best to work on one thing at a time. Right now you are working on determining whether you have apnea. The result of this effort will give you a clue to what to do next. There is no need to have contingency plans A, B, and C for all possible outcomes prepared at this point (even though I know that you think you are helping yourself by doing that - it actually increases your anxiety - it is called "catastrophizing" and it is not helpful).

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP mode, minimum pressure = 9. No ramp, EPR = 3, medium. Soft cervical collar. Sleepyhead software.
Last edited by Nick Danger on Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Julie » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:56 pm

+1

I'm really disappointed - you've said so often that you'll a) see the doctor today, or at least b) call today, but apparently neither has actually happened... and until you do that, I really think we're all going to lose patience very quickly with this.

User avatar
Nick Danger
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:13 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Nick Danger » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:00 pm

Julie wrote:+1

I'm really disappointed - you've said so often that you'll a) see the doctor today, or at least b) call today, but apparently neither has actually happened... and until you do that, I really think we're all going to lose patience very quickly with this.

It's only been two business days since the sleep study - I would be REALLY surprised if the doctor has the report this soon. I would hope the doctor receives it this week, but it may be another week or so...

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP mode, minimum pressure = 9. No ramp, EPR = 3, medium. Soft cervical collar. Sleepyhead software.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:03 pm

My doctor's office tends to return my calls now, ever since I showed up in person after being ignored for two days.
(Boy, were they apologetic!)

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
novatom
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:41 am

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by novatom » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:05 pm

I was diagnosed with moderate SA last fall but I wouldn't have gone for a sleep test if it hadn't been for my chronic insomnia. I didn't have the typical symptoms of SA and CPAP has not had much of an effect on my insomnia. But nevertheless I am thankful for the diagnosis as it revealed a hidden danger that could have had a much more detrimental effect on my health.

_________________
Mask: Nuance & Nuance Pro Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Gel Nasal Pillows
Additional Comments: 460 PR System One REMStar 60 Series Pro CPAP Machine

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Julie » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:20 pm

Oh I completely agree that 2 days is too soon to expect the report... I was just reminding him that he himself said he'd call, never mind go in.

User avatar
robysue
Posts: 7520
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY
Contact:

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by robysue » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:55 pm

Enchanter wrote:Sure I'm planning on calling today. But isn't the doc supposed to be call me? Isn't that how it normally works, yo?
The doc's office will call you when they have the full sleep study report. That will take some time. Possibly 7-10 days.

I have suggested that you call the doc's office not because it's going to get you the results any sooner, but rather it might help you to put your concerns about the way the sleep test was run into proper perspective.

If/when you call the sleep doc's office, this is what I'd tell the receptionist who answers the phone: I am confused about some things that happened during the sleep test and I'd like to speak to the doctor or a nurse or a PA about them. Can you have the doctor, nurse, or PA call be back at <phone number>

When you get a chance to speak with the doc, nurse, or PA, this is what I think you need to ask about and then you need to listen to their responses:
  • I feel as though I got no sleep at all during the night, but the tech came into my room and put a CPAP mask on me in the middle of the night. What criteria are used by the tech to determine whether and when to put a CPAP mask on the patient during a diagnostic sleep study?
  • The tech indicated that you would be contacting me with the test results in 7-10 days, but he also said the sleep center would be calling me in a few days in order to set up another sleep test. Why would that happen? And if the sleep center calls asking me to set up another sleep test before you get the results of this one, what should I tell them?
The doctor, nurse, or PA should be able to answer these two questions even if they don't have your sleep test results sitting in front of them. Or they should be able to get the answers for you without too much trouble. If you knew the answers to these two questions NOW, you might be able to worry a bit less about many of your what if ... scenarios.
Robysue, I always thought that the sleep problems were causing my problem. But didn't you also say that that just fixing the problem won't help with everything?
Let's do this in an itemized list:
  • You appear to have symptoms of serious anxiety (as in beyond the garden variety anxiety that anybody experiences) and you've said that you have previously been on medication for either depression or anxiety or both. (I don't have the posts/pms in front of me right now.) You've said that you did NOT do well on the medication. But you've also said that you've "tried other things" to manage the anxiety without specifying what they are. The anxiety seems to be a real problem in that you have had a very tough time reining in all kinds of unproductive, worry-based thoughts about the whole sleep apnea thing ever since you first started posting here. Until you find a way to manage the anxiety, it's going to continue to play a really large and negative role in your life. I understand that you have legitimate reasons for not wanting to take anti-anxiety medication. But that means you will need to find a nonpharmaceutical way of managing the anxiety.
  • You appear to be at high risk of OSA, and I believe that the only reason the tech running your sleep study would have put a CPAP mask on you during the diagnostic study is if the data makes it clear that you've got a serious problem with OSA. Fixing the OSA may or may not help the anxiety problems and any mood problems that you still have. It all depends on whether they are rooted in nothing but the OSA or whether they have other causes in addition to the OSA. Nonetheless, fixing the OSA should help you manage the anxiety in the very long run. In the short run? I think you are at high risk of being an extremely anxious new CPAPer and if/when CPAP doesn't magically make everything better by the end of the first week, I can see you posting anxiety-filled threads about how there must be something else wrong with you since the CPAP isn't working the way it's supposed to work, and what else could there be???? My point is that I can see us going around and around on trying to get you to understand that it takes time (as in weeks and sometimes months) before you might see any improvement in how you are feeling once you start CPAPing.
  • You appear to have a severe case of chronic insomnia and/or a sleep phase disorder in addition to OSA. I'm not a doctor, but I suffer from both insomnia and delayed sleep phase. I see a lot of symptoms of both of these in your posts. If you actually have a combination of OSA, insomnia, and/or a sleep phase disorder, your sleep is not going to magically improve just by starting CPAP. In order to improve your sleep, you will need to tackle all the sleep problems. And starting CPAP may in the short term create additional problems with the insomnia and/or the sleep phase disorder. It will be important for you to keep in mind that CPAP won't fix insomnia that is caused by things other than the OSA arousals. You have told me that you often have a racing mind when you first lie down and that it takes several hours of being in bed before you will finally fall asleep. Those are insomnia symptoms. And learning how to turn the chattering mind off enough to go to sleep when you want to go to sleep is NOT an easy task. And one problem you're going to face if/when you decide to deal with the insomnia is accepting that you probably sleep more than you think you do, but you also probably sleep less than you should. There are three basic approaches to dealing with insomnia: You can take prescription sleeping pills and hope they work. Or you can do cognitive behavior therapy for insomnia (CBT-I), which takes time and real effort. Or you can combine the two approaches. There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach, and the best approach for Person A may be the worst approach for Person B.
  • So far most of what you've done to try to rein in the Insomnia Monster has been self-help pharmaceutical approaches: You've taken this supplement or that supplement (including melatonin), but nothing has really worked very well. What you haven't done is any of the seriously hard self-help CBT-I stuff. The CBT-I stuff involves changing your beliefs about sleep and your sleep related behaviors. It's not particularly easy to do, but it can be as effective or more effective than pharmaceutical approaches to dealing with insomnia for some people. But it's not very effective for people who cannot or are unwilling or simply do not want to change their beliefs about sleep and their sleep related behaviors.
It's just my opinion as a reasonably well educated person who has a lot of experience dealing with insomnia, delayed sleep phase disorder, OSA, and several other chronic medical conditions, but I believe that you will only start to feel significantly better when you have the OSA, the insomnia, and the anxiety all under control. Controlling one of the three is better than letting all three run rampant, but the other two problems will still make you miserable. Controlling two of the three may help you function better, but you still won't feel the way you want to feel every day. Controlling all three problems should lead you to feeling much better than you do right now.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5

User avatar
Nick Danger
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:13 pm

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Nick Danger » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:26 pm

Taking Kaiasgram up on her offer of providing you the names of some good counselors in your area would be a really good idea. I'm not going to insult you by pretending to diagnose you based on your posts to this forum, but it looks to me like the way you think about things gets in your way. A good counselor or therapist could help you with that (with or without medication - preferably without). I suspect the kinds of feedback you are getting in this forum are similar to those you get in your everyday life. I wonder why you get that kind of feedback?

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP mode, minimum pressure = 9. No ramp, EPR = 3, medium. Soft cervical collar. Sleepyhead software.

User avatar
Enchanter
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:34 am

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:28 pm

novatom wrote:I was diagnosed with moderate SA last fall but I wouldn't have gone for a sleep test if it hadn't been for my chronic insomnia. I didn't have the typical symptoms of SA and CPAP has not had much of an effect on my insomnia. But nevertheless I am thankful for the diagnosis as it revealed a hidden danger that could have had a much more detrimental effect on my health.

It could have had detrimental effects, but have you received any benefits?
My Current Therapies
- CPAP + Humidifier
- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching

User avatar
Enchanter
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:34 am

Re: Is there any disorder similar to Sleep Apnea?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:29 pm

Nick Danger wrote:Taking Kaiasgram up on her offer of providing you the names of some good counselors in your area would be a really good idea. I'm not going to insult you by pretending to diagnose you based on your posts to this forum, but it looks to me like the way you think about things gets in your way. A good counselor or therapist could help you with that (with or without medication - preferably without). I suspect the kinds of feedback you are getting in this forum are similar to those you get in your everyday life. I wonder why you get that kind of feedback?

Wait let me get this straight. You said to not have Plans B and C. But now you are suggesting me another plan? You see why I get confused?
My Current Therapies
- CPAP + Humidifier
- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching