Partially off topic: electricty and power surges

[zoocrewphoto]

This may relate to cpap machines somewhat, but the topic came up with my laptop. It frequently crashes while at home, but never while traveling, or on the battery. I do have a grounded outlet and what I thought was a good surge protector.

What I have really noticed, but had a hard time confirming, is that I think it is weather related. For example, when the weather is sunny and dry, my laptop can go days without crashing. Then today, no rain, but cloudy, and hinting at rain, it started crashing at least once an hour. Until I unplugged it. I am now running on battery until I get the warning, then plugging it in for awhile, and going back to the battery. I would like to buy a new surge protector, but I have no idea what I need to get. I thought what I had was good. I have never had a problem with my cpap machine, or my previous laptops. Nothing blinks, so any surge has to be pretty minor. I bought this laptop used, so that could be part of it, but why only have problems at home, while plugged in, and when the weather is bad? I travel a lot, and it works fine when traveling.

Any suggestions on specs for a surge protector that can handle whatever weird problem seems to be happening?

[mgaggie]

I've never had your specific problem, the only time weather affects electrical things is when there is a storm and a power line has come down. Or when a Magpie fries itself on a line (thankfully not often) then the power goes out entirely.

Forgive my ignorance but does your house have trip switches?

[AlabamaAl]

Are you near any large industries, or welding shops? Sometimes dirty power is created by them. One would think that the battery in your computer would filter out a lot of the surge and/or introduced frequencies... interesting problem! You might try calling the power company to check the quality of power coming into your home.

[grayghost4]

simple fix .... leave the battery in the laptop, while at home.

[JohnO]

This may relate to cpap machines somewhat, but the topic came up with my laptop. It frequently crashes while at home, but never while traveling, or on the battery. I do have a grounded outlet and what I thought was a good surge protector.

What laptop do you have? Most laptop power supplies actually charge the battery, and the battery continues to power the computer. In that regard, other than charging the battery, house power should not be getting directly to your computer. Of course, if the power supply itself, or the battery charging mechanism itself are having issues, then it could certainly be the power in your home.

Another question is whether you are on a network when at home? Are you plugged into the network, or are you connected wirelessly? If that is a behavior that is different when on the road vs. at home, that is worth thinking about.

When on battery, how long does the battery last? If it is too short (anything less than an hour, for example) it might be time to buy a new battery.

The best way to provide yourself clean power is to have a good UPS that'll quickly flip to its internal battery if there is a surge or spike. Do you have something similar for your CPAP machine? I use this unit:

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/produc ... 85avr.html

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP685A ... ower+cp685

John

[SewTired]

Can't help you with the laptop, although we have problems staying connected to the internet when moisture is high (like this am). In our case, we know it's an old modem and that gets replaced in July by our ISP.

As far as a surge protector, I use them on all computers, Tvs and peripherals. I even use on my sewing machine to save the switch. Whenever there is lightning or thunder, I UNPLUG everything. We had a lightning strike in the street in front of house and it caused intermittent problems on all the computers and the tv. The tv eventually resolved, but had to replace the motherboards on all 3 computers . The average surge protector is no match for lightning.

My Cpap will be on a surge suppressor mostly to preserve the switch.

[Krelvin]

Multiple reasons for your issues are possible.

Normally when you are using a notebook, it runs off of the battery 100% of the time, it is just getting charged when plugged in at the same time. This BTW can be bad for the battery over time but some notebooks (Like Dell) have methods to deal with that.

Possible issues.

• You are getting line spikes via your network (if wired not wireless).
• Static electricity, if the notebook is on a plastic surface it is possible it is has a poor ground or is getting static charges along with the power cord you have connected to it all the time.
• HEAT... One issue I ran into with my notebooks were they were overheating. This made it look a lot like static issues as they would reboot on their own out of the blue (I used to blame the dog). Using a cool pad fixed that problem. BTW the dog is still to blame for most other problems.
• Cheap insufficient "power strip". Many of them have all kinds of claims but are poorly made. If you really have line power issues, use a real line conditioner. I use ONEAC's (now owned by PowerVar). This are not power strips but an actual line conditioner box typically with one or two output plugs that actually condition the power.
• Industrial power line issues. The hobby ARC welder down the street can be causing havoc and damage to your electronics without you even knowing it.

BTW if it is a notebook, you don't need a UPS, it has one built in. but a good line conditioner will protect your electronics.

[zoocrewphoto]

Thanks for all the replies. I bought it used, and the original power cord died. I have bought two new power cords so that I can keep a backup in my luggage. The problem happens with both at home, and with neither one when traveling.

I do used wired internet at home. I will try it for awhile with wireless, but I have never had it crash it while on battery at home even though it is still wired internet at home.

Maybe I should buy a new battery even though it seems okay when traveling. The battery lasts about an hour and a half to two hours.

I do live close to a line of towers that go down the hill into the valley. There is an empty lot next to our house that has trees, but the tower is probably 2-3 house widths over and a little down the hill.

I've never had this problem with any other computer, and we have lived here 28 years. We do have an older house. My dad actually made a special outlet for my bedroom to use for the computer, tv, etc as the old plugs are all the 2 prong kind. This outlet comes from the newer fuse box, and has a double outlet that enters the room at the other end. Then there is a very heavy power cord that comes to this end of the room. I plug the surge protector into that. I've been using outlet this for probably 15 years or so. The actual surge protector is fairly new, a few months, since I had hoped that buying a new surge protector would solve the problem.

At first, I couldn't see a pattern. Sometimes it would crash several times in a day, then go a week or more without crashing. Last night, it was a couple times an hour until I unplugged it. I did leave it plugged in last night, and it is still on today. When it crashes, it sometimes freezes for a few seconds and then the screen goes blank. Sometimes, it just goes blank. It is not the monitor as I have it plugged into a real monitor. And I have checked the laptop screen. I have to power off by holding down the power button and then start it again.

[bwexler]

Two suspects, the extension cord and the surge suppressor. does the extension cord plug firmly into the wall or is it getting limp? Is there a kink in the extension or has it been walked on or had furniture placed on it? the cord may be damaged internally.
What brand is the new surge suppressor? Does it have colored indicator lights on it to indicate it is working and has a properly wired outlet? Woods is a brand that makes a line of power strips labeled as surge suppressors, if you have one of those or equivalent, it may not be doing anything.
Have you ever checked the outlet to see that it is properly wired? Harbour freight or any big box store sells a simple device that plugs in and has 3 colored LEDs to indicate the outlet is wired correctly or what is wrong with it. My house was built in 1958 and only a very few outlets have a proper ground, like yours many are 2 prong. Those that look like a 3 prong outlet do not have a ground wire to make the third prong effective.

[palerider]

you say you got two replacement power cords, I presume you mean the power bricks. are they OEM or aftermarket?

that's what I'd suspect first. not power surges, or you'd be seeing lights flickering in the house.

[zoocrewphoto]

Two suspects, the extension cord and the surge suppressor. does the extension cord plug firmly into the wall or is it getting limp? Is there a kink in the extension or has it been walked on or had furniture placed on it? the cord may be damaged internally.
What brand is the new surge suppressor? Does it have colored indicator lights on it to indicate it is working and has a properly wired outlet? Woods is a brand that makes a line of power strips labeled as surge suppressors, if you have one of those or equivalent, it may not be doing anything.
Have you ever checked the outlet to see that it is properly wired? Harbour freight or any big box store sells a simple device that plugs in and has 3 colored LEDs to indicate the outlet is wired correctly or what is wrong with it. My house was built in 1958 and only a very few outlets have a proper ground, like yours many are 2 prong. Those that look like a 3 prong outlet do not have a ground wire to make the third prong effective.

When the outlet and cord were installed, we used the device with the LEDs to make sure it was grounded correctly. I'll see if my dad has it handy. It looks fine where the outlet is. The cord goes behind furniture that hasn't moved in many years, so it should be fine. But I suppose it could have gotten damaged over the years.

The brand of surge protector is "Power Sentry" and it has lights on for protecting and grounded. I just did a search online, and it sounds like there are complaints with it, so I will definitely get something else. But the problem started before I switched to this surge protector.

[zoocrewphoto]

you say you got two replacement power cords, I presume you mean the power bricks. are they OEM or aftermarket?

that's what I'd suspect first. not power surges, or you'd be seeing lights flickering in the house.

They are aftermarket, but they are different brands, not all the same. They are the correct voltage. And I have not had any problem with either power brick when traveling. I stay in hotels, a friend's RV, and I have used the laptop at various show halls. No problems except at home.

I'm really wondering if there is something in the house wiring that is being affected by the weather. Or something outside the house that is causing a problem that the surge protector cannot handle. The 5 day forecast is dry and 70s, so I probably won't have crashes until the weather changes again.

My cpap is on one of the old outlets with a basic surge protector, and I have never had a problem with it.

[palerider]

My cpap is on one of the old outlets with a basic surge protector, and I have never had a problem with it.

well, process of elimination... find a time when the computer is acting up, swap power supplies, then move get another extension cord and plug it into that, on the same wall outlet... then move the extension cord to another outlet, etc.

it may not be fast, but hopefully it'll help narrow down where the issue is.

also, plug a plain old incandescent light in where the computer is plugged in, see if it varies in brightness.

[purple]

Likely Palerider is correct that the power bricks are not quite right. Power Supplies in any computer tend to go bad after two years or so, capacitors get old. Although we humans run for a long while after that, we tend to see flaky performance. It manifests when you have something to do with the mains. I doubt you can do much about the mains, but replacing the power cubes, or however it is shaped, is likely to help.

Power Surge protectors depend on Capacitors as well, some capacitors can go bad in them as well, even if the surge protector was sitting in a warehouse and not in use. You will know that the capacitors in the surge protector has gone bad, when your electronics blow up. A local computer shop sells a very high grade surge protector with a lifetime warranty. One of their customers brings the surge protectors back several times a year as their location is prone to surges from lightening. Just luck of the location. The good news is that they only lose surge protectors, not electronics. Unlike the first time they had all their electronics burn up.

Someone on another board said that in LA they have such poor power, that power cubes, and such that they have to replace the power cubes, adaptors, whatever the holds the power supply rather frequently. This problem is likely coming to the rest of the US. We are beginning to see the power grid problems of a third world country.

Perhaps Palerider can suggest the size a surge protector rating should be in Joules.

[RogerSC]

If you get a good UPS, you can connect it to a computer via USB and monitor your line voltage. Then you can see what's going on there, and eliminate that as a cause, as well as having better surge and brown-out protection for your laptop. I have a nice UPS here that has my cable modem, router, and a couple of computers (no monitors or other peripherals, though) plugged into the battery backed up ports, and it takes care of business here. Be sure to check reviews before you buy a UPS to make sure that it has line voltage monitoring capability, and that people are using it. Sometimes features are advertised but aren't completely implemented or usable, and it pays to check that out beforehand (voice of experience *smile*).