What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

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Raheel
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What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by Raheel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:24 am

This may be a stupid question but I would like to know the normal pressure we breath during sleep if we do not suffer from sleep Apnea ?

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by JDS74 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:48 am

Actually an elegant question.
Normal pressure for a non-apneic patient not using oxygen supplementation is ambient air pressure.
That translates in cpap terms to zero CmH20. The idea is to create a pressure differential between the air in the patient's airway and outside air. This helps to keep the airway from collapsing fully (obstructive apnea) or partially (hypopnea).

CPAP pressure is always stated in terms of pressure above room air pressure.
If I remember correctly, most CPAP machines don't (can't?) supply air at less then 4 CmH2O above ambient.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by bwexler » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:26 pm

I might take a slightly different approach to the answer, I would say 14.7 lbs/sq inch.

"Air pressure" redirects here. For the pressure of air in other systems, see pressure.
Atmospheric pressure is the pressure exerted by the weight of air in the atmosphere of Earth (or that of another planet). In most circumstances atmospheric pressure is closely approximated by the hydrostatic pressure caused by the weight of air above the measurement point. On a given plane, low-pressure areas have less atmospheric mass above their location, whereas high-pressure areas have more atmospheric mass above their location. Likewise, as elevation increases, there is less overlying atmospheric mass, so that atmospheric pressure decreases with increasing elevation. On average, a column of air one square centimeter in cross-section, measured from sea level to the top of the atmosphere, has a mass of about 1.03 kg and weight of about 10.1 N (2.28 lbf). (A column one square inch in cross-section would have a weight of about 14.7 lbs, or about 65.4 N.) Atmospheric pressure is sometimes called barometric pressure.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by JDS74 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:45 pm

That is a different way of looking at the question and an informative and helpful answer.
Cheers

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by palerider » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:04 pm

bwexler wrote:I might take a slightly different approach to the answer, I would say 14.7 lbs/sq inch.
or, 1033.5 cmH2o

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by Pesser » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:35 pm

palerider wrote:
bwexler wrote:I might take a slightly different approach to the answer, I would say 14.7 lbs/sq inch.
or, 1033.5 cmH2o
Would that not depend on the elevation? Also on weather? After all right now my instruments are recording 102.9KP!

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by palerider » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:58 pm

Pesser wrote:
palerider wrote:
bwexler wrote:I might take a slightly different approach to the answer, I would say 14.7 lbs/sq inch.
or, 1033.5 cmH2o
Would that not depend on the elevation? Also on weather? After all right now my instruments are recording 102.9KP!
oh, absolutely... there was a mention of mean sea level somewhere in there.

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archangle
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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by archangle » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:55 pm

I wonder how much the pressure in your lungs varies above and below room pressure when a normal person breathes. And how much pressure/vacuum happens in the lungs of an untreated apneac.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by JDS74 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:16 am

if you have a home manometer and an supplemental oxygen adapter, you can measure it directly.

Disconnect the cpap hose from the machine, insert the O2 adapter between the mask and the hose, connect the manometer to the O2 port, and breathe. This same setup can be used to see the difference when the CPAP machine is running.

The manometer should show the variation in pressure between inhale and exhale. There will be some venturi effect from the passage of the air past the O2 port but that should?? be small in comparison.

At least, I think that's the way to measure the variation in lung pressure between inhale and exhale without having a tube down your neck connected to a pressure transducer.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:31 am

High altitude could be simulated by an iron lung, maybe? (Assuming one could access one for the experiment)
The air stent produced by cpap depends on the difference between internal vs ambient air pressure,
And the amount of the difference required depends on the amount, consistency, and shape of tissues forming the obstruction.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by palerider » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:35 am

JDS74 wrote:if you have a home manometer and an supplemental oxygen adapter, you can measure it directly.

Disconnect the cpap hose from the machine, insert the O2 adapter between the mask and the hose, connect the manometer to the O2 port, and breathe. This same setup can be used to see the difference when the CPAP machine is running.

The manometer should show the variation in pressure between inhale and exhale. There will be some venturi effect from the passage of the air past the O2 port but that should?? be small in comparison.

At least, I think that's the way to measure the variation in lung pressure between inhale and exhale without having a tube down your neck connected to a pressure transducer.
there should be very little variation, since the machines adjust their blower speeds during the breath cycle to maintain the desired pressure.

I got rid of a 560 because the rising and falling whine of the blower motor, though faint enough to be drowned out by the airconditioner, bothered me.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by JDS74 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:48 am

Wow! BiPaps don't change pressure between inhale and exhale. It's all a hype just to get more money???

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palerider
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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by palerider » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:55 am

JDS74 wrote:Wow! BiPaps don't change pressure between inhale and exhale. It's all a hype just to get more money???
is your brain just partially defective, or completely so?

if you need me to spell it out, using small words and typing slowly so you can understand, just let me know.

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by billbolton » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:23 pm

bwexler wrote:I might take a slightly different approach to the answer, I would say 14.7 lbs/sq inch..
OnLy valid at (nominal) sea level

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Re: What is the normal pressure for people without sleep Apnea?

Post by guest1 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:52 pm

Raheel wrote:This may be a stupid question but I would like to know the normal pressure we breath during sleep if we do not suffer from sleep Apnea ?
google Positive end-expiratory pressure. The pressure in your top of lungs is ~5cm h2o at end of exhalation.