Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

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PeaceSleeper
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Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by PeaceSleeper » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:51 am

Looking for help and suggestions on how to make my new Oracle 452 mask tolerable. My throat becomes very dried out within 10 minutes of use, despite running my Icon APAP with humidity set at 7. I have been trying nasal masks over the last 10 years with Intermittent success, and bought this a few days ago kind of out of desperation due to waking up not breathing when not on APAP. Pressure range is 10-14, with 90% pressure being 14. Supposed to get a new sleep study in 2 weeks, don't think I can go that long without some sleep. Any advice on the new oral mask?

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Julie
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by Julie » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:56 am

Why don't you try full face masks?

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PeaceSleeper
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by PeaceSleeper » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:02 am

No objection to a full face mask other than I tried one a few years ago and I couldn't get it to fit properly, leaked a lot. But maybe time to try again. I'm traveling right now so no way to even get one until I'm back home. Any suggestions for a specific model would be appreciated.

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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:12 am

Have you ever tried the Comfortgel Blue full face mask?
It was the only one that fit my unconventionally beautiful face.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:37 am

PeaceSleeper wrote:Any advice on the new oral mask?
Image

Not everything we try in life will work out.

Are you free of all those sinus problems you were having years ago?

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PeaceSleeper
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by PeaceSleeper » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:31 am

The sinus stuff hasn't changed much, still a lot of congestion which when using a nasal mask gets worse such that I pull the mask off while I am asleep.

JDS74
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by JDS74 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:33 am

PeaceSleeper wrote:No objection to a full face mask other than I tried one a few years ago and I couldn't get it to fit properly, leaked a lot. But maybe time to try again. I'm traveling right now so no way to even get one until I'm back home. Any suggestions for a specific model would be appreciated.
Leaks in a full face mask are sometimes caused by jaw drop as your facial muscles relax with sleep. One way to fix that issue is a soft cervical collar that supports the jaw without moving it backwards like a chin strap does which can cause additional obstructive events. If you try one, be sure it is really soft and not stiff like EMS people use to stabilize your cervical spine.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:23 am

JDS74 wrote:Leaks in a full face mask are sometimes caused by jaw drop as your facial muscles relax with sleep. One way to fix that issue is a soft cervical collar that supports the jaw without moving it backwards like a chin strap does which can cause additional obstructive events. If you try one, be sure it is really soft and not stiff like EMS people use to stabilize your cervical spine.
Good recommendation JDS. I sleep every night with one like this - http://www.amazon.com/Carex-Health-Bran ... cal+collar

PeaceSleeper wrote:The sinus stuff hasn't changed much, still a lot of congestion which when using a nasal mask gets worse such that I pull the mask off while I am asleep.
Have you been to your ENT lately to get another examination and discuss your problems? Maybe an opinion from a second ENT?

sleepydc
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by sleepydc » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:31 am

JDS74 wrote:
PeaceSleeper wrote:No objection to a full face mask other than I tried one a few years ago and I couldn't get it to fit properly, leaked a lot. But maybe time to try again. I'm traveling right now so no way to even get one until I'm back home. Any suggestions for a specific model would be appreciated.
Leaks in a full face mask are sometimes caused by jaw drop as your facial muscles relax with sleep. One way to fix that issue is a soft cervical collar that supports the jaw without moving it backwards like a chin strap does which can cause additional obstructive events. If you try one, be sure it is really soft and not stiff like EMS people use to stabilize your cervical spine.
Another possible solution: the "partial" taping method.
For my FFM (full face mask) use I found it started working a whole lot better when I started using tape. Some people end up using chin straps with FFM's. I tried and disliked chin straps. For me, the "partial tape method" solves most of the issues with "mouth breathing" and "draw drop," which interrrupts the seal of a FFM (full face mask) because my face changes shape when that occurs and the seal is broken. At this point, I hardly notice it's there -- and (in combination with some of the techniques described below) it promotes nasal breathing, which seems to be a pretty good thing while sleeping, helps prevent leaks that wake me up, helps prevent "chipmunk" cheeks, and helps prevent drymouth. It's not for everyone, but here's what I'd suggest:

I have now been using surgical tape for about a year now, and it has worked wonders and works very well for me. I use silk surgical type tape you can get off of Amazon, 2" wide. There's also a 1" wide version. If you gently pull it off in the morning, there's usually no problem. Just type something like "3M-Durapore-Silk-Tape 2 inches x 10 yards - box of 6" or the like on the Amazon site. For me, it works very well with a full face mask (FFM) -- the FFM helps prevent pressure problems if my jaw does open slightly, and the tape substantially prevents my jaw from dropping and also thereby keeps my face largely in the same "position" as I fall asleep (thereby avoiding the inevitable leaks that can occur when your facial shape changes from the point of initial placement/tightening of the mask). .

I was actually worried about not being able to breath with the tape if there was a shut-down. I've found that this set-up, however, offers very few worries:

For the silk tape, apply a 2inch wide strip vertically from a spot just above your upper lip (the indentation just below your nose) down to just under your chin (with your lips closed and your jaw in a comfortable place). As you bring the tape and press it underneath your chin, "fold" the edge back on itself (maybe a 1/2 inch or so) so that the edge hangs a bit from your chin -- makes for easier removal in case of emergency. Because it's only 2 inches wide and vertically placed, your entire mouth is actually not taped -- you can, in a pinch, breath around the edges -- and the silk tape itself I've found by accident (in opening my mouth with it being placed) will also let a little air in if you open your mouth forcefully. In short, it doesn't take too much force to maneuver or breath around the silk tape, but at the same time the tape seems to mostly keep my jaw from dropping when I relax and fall asleep, which is the whole point. [The setup also seems to work best when combined with the technique, described elsewhere on this site, of learning to relax with the tip of your tongue against the roof of your mouth as your mouth is closed, which "seals" the mouth from the nasal passage and helps prevent dry mouth]. (In placing the tape, I've also found it helpful to focus on firming the contact with the skin at the point below the nose and under the chin more than the lips, which seems to leave a little area of the lip region feeling less taped, if that makes sense). [To remove with less "tear", try pulling up vertically from underneath the chin till you reach your lip, then pull across "horizontally" for the remainder.]

The usual caveats about making up your own mind about this, considering safety issues, etc. apply, of course. But frankly, I'm surprised more people don't do this.

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Wulfman...
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by Wulfman... » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:01 pm

PeaceSleeper wrote:No objection to a full face mask other than I tried one a few years ago and I couldn't get it to fit properly, leaked a lot. But maybe time to try again. I'm traveling right now so no way to even get one until I'm back home. Any suggestions for a specific model would be appreciated.
Not all full face masks are created equal. I used my first ResMed UMFF mask for a year and then had a curiosity about the mask I had worn in my sleep study........so, I bought a Respironics Comfortfull 2 (which appeared to be what I remembered the sleep study mask to be). Well, I managed to barely tolerate it for three nights before relenting and going back to my "old reliable". Definitely NOT "comfortable" for me.
In 2007, I purchased a ResMed Quattro from one of the forum members who decided he didn't want/like it. I wore it occasionally, but I still kept going back to my UMFF. It wasn't "bad". I still have it and keep THINKING about trying it again, but haven't gotten around to it yet. There was another full face mask (that I won't name) which I received on a "mask trial" from a new manufacturer years ago, and couldn't even get through a nap with that one.


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sgtstew
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by sgtstew » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:13 pm

My face mask doesn't fully seal, but it's enough to get the results I'm looking for. Just have to tolerate the slight hiss coming from the leakage. I'm still looking for something better.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:45 pm

sgtstew wrote: I'm still looking for something better.
A good place to do some catalog shopping - https://www.cpap.com/cpap-masks.php

library lady
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by library lady » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:43 pm

PeaceSleeper,

My solution for leaks with the FF Quattro Air and now the F10 was a mask liner... it was a game changer for me! I also had some facial irritation from the cheek straps on the F10, and for that I purchased strap covers.
Both can be obtained from Karen at Pad-A-Cheek, http://www.padacheek.com. Another good liner is RemZzzs, which most DMEs carry, or you can order from the sponsors of our forum at https://www.cpap.com. I tried both of these liners when I first had difficulty with leaks, and they both serve to minimize leaks, but I prefer the RemZzzs.

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PeaceSleeper
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Re: Unable to tolerate nasal mask, oral mask equally difficult.

Post by PeaceSleeper » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:11 am

Great feedback, thank you all. I have been to a new ENT just last month, who thought I needed a new sleep study and referral to a voice lab related to VCD, as well as to a gastroenterology specialist for a check on my GERD status. He also suggested investigating a dental appliance in lieu of CPAP/APAP.