Testing S9 Climateline hose

I've been having some minor rainout issues with my setup for a while, and started to suspect my Climateline hose was not working properly (used for 10 months now). Tonight I did a test, set the heat to the max (30C), and the humidity at 3.0, and kept my hand on the hose. I felt a definite heat at the mask end of the hose very quickly after turning the machine on, but could not feel any heat in other parts of the hose, or at the humidifier end, after 5 minutes and more. Would this indicate a problem, or would it be how you expect the hose to behave?

I normally do not like a heat that high, but I figured if I set the heat to the max that would be a good test.

Thanks.

Paul

I have never been able to notice any marked warmth when touching the ClimateLine or even in the air being delivered....even when set to maximum delivery. It won't/can't feel like a heating pad because it doesn't get that warm. The warmest it will go to is 86 degrees and that's still cooler than our own body temps so it isn't going to feel all that warm.

If I thought there was maybe a problem with the hose I would just use a new hose to see what happened.

Rainout can happen simply because the bedroom air temp is causing the air in the hose to cool down (even if it is heated because it might only be heated to a temp that is borderline cool enough to release the moisture) and release the moisture.
Especially true now that it is winter and we typically keep our bedrooms at a much cooler temp than at other times. The colder our ambient room temp is the quicker the hose air could cool down and the lower the temp setting on the hose...the quicker it could cool down to release the moisture.

Pugsy wrote:I have never been able to notice any marked warmth when touching the ClimateLine or even in the air being delivered....even when set to maximum delivery. It won't/can't feel like a heating pad because it doesn't get that warm. The warmest it will go to is 86 degrees and that's still cooler than our own body temps so it isn't going to feel all that warm.

If I thought there was maybe a problem with the hose I would just use a new hose to see what happened.

Rainout can happen simply because the bedroom air temp is causing the air in the hose to cool down (even if it is heated because it might only be heated to a temp that is borderline cool enough to release the moisture) and release the moisture.
Especially true now that it is winter and we typically keep our bedrooms at a much cooler temp than at other times. The colder our ambient room temp is the quicker the hose air could cool down and the lower the temp setting on the hose...the quicker it could cool down to release the moisture.

Thanks Pugsy. Perhaps I'm imagining things, or over-reacting to what is actually just a tiny bit of rainout. I'm still a bit suspicious of my humidifier, which warms up nicely when I do the pre-warming thing, but always feels stone cold when I check it during the night. I'm not sure how the hose and humidifier interact with each other. I just don't remember having any rainout at all last year, when the room temp and humidity were about the same. I'll continue to play with settings, I guess.

Paul

Is the rain out just in the nasal pillows?

Remember, 80 degrees is a good bit less than body temperature. That will usually feel cool - not warm - to your hand. The heater feels warmer than that at first because it is heating cold water and the heater is probably a little over 98.6 degrees when heating cold water - once the water is the correct temperature, the warming plate doesn't have to get very warm to keep it around 80 degrees or so.

Nick Danger wrote:Remember, 80 degrees is a good bit less than body temperature. That will usually feel cool - not warm - to your hand. The heater feels warmer than that at first because it is heating cold water and the heater is probably a little over 98.6 degrees when heating cold water - once the water is the correct temperature, the warming plate doesn't have to get very warm to keep it around 80 degrees or so.

Thanks for the thought - that does make sense to me.

Pugsy wrote:Is the rain out just in the nasal pillows?

Yes, just a tiny bit in the pillows. If I raise them from my nose with the machine running when I can feel some moisture, and kind of "flick" them with my finger, I can feel a few drops of water coming from them. If there was a barrel cozy available for the P10 like for the Swift FX, that might help, but as far as I'm aware, there is none, due to the placement of the air exhaust ports.

Now that I think of it, maybe I'll go back to my Swift FX for a while, and if I don't experience this problem there, that will tell me something.

I sometimes get those tiny bits of water in my P10 nasal pillows even with the temp on the Climateline set to max. It's a combination of my exhale breath moisture content and the rather cold bedroom.
I was able to play with the Swift FX barrel cozy so that it could be applied to the P10 without blocking the vent holes. It takes a little bit of fiddling to get it done but it can be done. I don't know if one of the other barrel cozies would be a better fit. You might ask Karen at Padacheek what she thinks. I don't have any barrel cozy except the one for the Swift FX. She has all models and would be in a better spot to know which ones would maybe work better.

We are pretty limited in what we can do about condensation only in the nasal pillows in situations like this. It rarely bothers me enough to disturb my sleep though so I haven't even bothered to use the barrel cozy. Mostly it's just present when I wake up in the AM.
Our choices are increase the bedroom temp or increase the hose temp in hopes that the extra warmth in the incoming air in hopes that a little bit more warmth will hopefully be warm enough to avoid the condensation. Insulating the short hose and/or the nasal pillow is one way to try to keep that air a little warmer if increasing the hose temp isn't getting the job done.

You know this problem even happens to people not using a humidifier so I don't tell people to reduce the humidifier setting unless they just want to try it. For me the problems with nasal mucosa drying out are much worse than the slight annoyance of a little water in the nasal pillows and there is no guarantee it would work anyway.

Pugsy wrote:I sometimes get those tiny bits of water in my P10 nasal pillows even with the temp on the Climateline set to max. It's a combination of my exhale breath moisture content and the rather cold bedroom.
I was able to play with the Swift FX barrel cozy so that it could be applied to the P10 without blocking the vent holes. It takes a little bit of fiddling to get it done but it can be done. I don't know if one of the other barrel cozies would be a better fit. You might ask Karen at Padacheek what she thinks. I don't have any barrel cozy except the one for the Swift FX. She has all models and would be in a better spot to know which ones would maybe work better.

We are pretty limited in what we can do about condensation only in the nasal pillows in situations like this. It rarely bothers me enough to disturb my sleep though so I haven't even bothered to use the barrel cozy. Mostly it's just present when I wake up in the AM.
Our choices are increase the bedroom temp or increase the hose temp in hopes that the extra warmth in the incoming air in hopes that a little bit more warmth will hopefully be warm enough to avoid the condensation. Insulating the short hose and/or the nasal pillow is one way to try to keep that air a little warmer if increasing the hose temp isn't getting the job done.

You know this problem even happens to people not using a humidifier so I don't tell people to reduce the humidifier setting unless they just want to try it. For me the problems with nasal mucosa drying out are much worse than the slight annoyance of a little water in the nasal pillows and there is no guarantee it would work anyway.

Thank you - all good comments. I do have a hose cover on the short hose attached to the P10. Maybe I am over-reacting to this, and can just get used to it. It makes sense what you say, that the tiny bits of water are a combination of my exhale breath and the slightly lower temperature in my bedroom. I already have the bedroom as warm as I like it, in fact, I would actually like it to be cooler. It gets very hot where I live in the summer, and with no air conditioning, I should be able to tell then if the temperature differential is a large factor. I certainly don't remember this happening last summer, but then, I only started using the P10 in late September.

Pugsy wrote:I have never been able to notice any marked warmth when touching the ClimateLine or even in the air being delivered....even when set to maximum delivery. It won't/can't feel like a heating pad because it doesn't get that warm. The warmest it will go to is 86 degrees and that's still cooler than our own body temps so it isn't going to feel all that warm.

If I thought there was maybe a problem with the hose I would just use a new hose to see what happened.

Rainout can happen simply because the bedroom air temp is causing the air in the hose to cool down (even if it is heated because it might only be heated to a temp that is borderline cool enough to release the moisture) and release the moisture.
Especially true now that it is winter and we typically keep our bedrooms at a much cooler temp than at other times. The colder our ambient room temp is the quicker the hose air could cool down and the lower the temp setting on the hose...the quicker it could cool down to release the moisture.

So will it feel warm at all when I breathe it at 86 degrees? I'm getting this hose pretty soon. I am going to set it at 86. What will it feel like to my nose and lungs?

VPAP wrote:

Pugsy wrote:I have never been able to notice any marked warmth when touching the ClimateLine or even in the air being delivered....even when set to maximum delivery. It won't/can't feel like a heating pad because it doesn't get that warm. The warmest it will go to is 86 degrees and that's still cooler than our own body temps so it isn't going to feel all that warm.

If I thought there was maybe a problem with the hose I would just use a new hose to see what happened.

Rainout can happen simply because the bedroom air temp is causing the air in the hose to cool down (even if it is heated because it might only be heated to a temp that is borderline cool enough to release the moisture) and release the moisture.
Especially true now that it is winter and we typically keep our bedrooms at a much cooler temp than at other times. The colder our ambient room temp is the quicker the hose air could cool down and the lower the temp setting on the hose...the quicker it could cool down to release the moisture.

So will it feel warm at all when I breathe it at 86 degrees? I'm getting this hose pretty soon. I am going to set it at 86. What will it feel like to my nose and lungs?

86 degrees to your nose, 98.6 to your lungs.

Morbius wrote:...98.6 to your lungs.

Although lungs do not "feel" per se...

I want to THANK YOU so much for this reply I regret ordering that hose. I wanted a Fisher & Paykel Humidifier with a heated wire like you would expect to find in the ICU INA a mechanical ventilator circuit. I wanted waaaaaaarm moist air. I have horrible HUMIDIFICATION problems because I do not have the hair like substance that most people have in their nose but Medicare will not pay for it. I have numerous severe respiratory problems and am now in severe Hypoxemic Respiratory Failure I am dreading the continuation of the continuous dry mouth in the morning. I still get dry mouth even with the humidifier set on 6.0 and with a vaporizer set on maximum. My floor is drenched in the morning because of the vaporizer setting. I have a feeding tube and cannot eat or drink by mouth. I got this hose thinking I would have something similar to a ventilators heated wire circuit HUMIDIFICATION.