Medical complications of untreated sleep apnea

[ravenous28]

Has anyone ever had any experience of linking abnormal liver function blood test results to untreated osa? Over the last 6-7 years (and around the time I was diagnosed with osa) my doctors noticed I had unexplained elevated liver ast/ast. It would go up and then back to normal with months and months of testing over the years. After seeing a liver specialist doctor having multiple blood tests, a liver biopsy and fibroscan and there’s nothing wrong with my liver, maybe some fatty liver and something that the doctor can’t explain to maybe very tiny external damage that is benign in all the scans. My doctors have no idea what’s going on but there’s nothing major/scarring etc.

What’s ironic about this is I’ve been on a chase to find out what’s going on with this since 2013 and come up empty handed.
Recently I searched sleep apnea and come across something from a credible website Mayo Clinic https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20377631

Near the bottom it states, Sleep apnea is a serious medical condition. Complications can include:
Liver problems. People with sleep apnea are more likely to have abnormal results on liver function tests, and their livers are more likely to show signs of scarring (nonalcoholic fatty liver disease)

What’s ironic about this is I was prescribed a dental device tap 3 around the same time and was using it the whole time 6-7 years without officially following up to see if it’s actually working to treat my osa. I was only going by my feelings and I missed my follow up due to my own fault. I’m starting to wonder if this is true, I’ve been chasing after this liver mystery for many years and perhaps this is a sign that I’m not properly treating osa accurately. This all goes into play with the long term effects of improper/untreated desaturations/osa over the years. Surely, it can’t be good for your body not taking care of osa for years and years... also I was reading lately about specifics of what sleep actually does for your body.

“During deep sleep, the body releases growth hormones for healing and growth, which aid in cell repair and healthy new cell growth in tissues and organs throughout the body. It’s also during deep sleep that the immune system strengthens and renews itself.”

This is a good article about it https://splus.resmed.com/wonders-restorative-sleep/

Could this be a relationship with things that happen to your body if you don’t take care of your sleep apnea?

This is why I’m trying to get my osa better controlled and I’m now taking things more serious with reaching out to all my doctors and following up with these tests. This is why I question my sp02 levels an oximeter I bought and if the mouthpiece isn’t working then the airsense 10 apap is then that’s what I might need to stick with. I know the best option is to just go make an appointment with a sleep specialist and explain this all and I’m going to very soon. My pcp hasn’t been much help and unfortunately my certified sleep board dentist hasn’t taken this as serious as I think he should. I had to force the issue with all this. I have another home 3 night sleep study coming up next month with the dental device. But if I have a point of any of this, I might of just saved someone 7 years of medical testing when it’s *possible that it could’ve been all untreated osa related to the things apnea can actually do to your body if left untreated...

My liver doctor wants to keep running liver function blood tests every 3-4 months this year to analyze if it’s up or now just like my pcp has been doing for years. I figure if I can just get this apnea thing under control and know it’s getting treated properly I can then take the results of the blood labs and liver/osa out of the equation as a link one way or another.

Thanks for listening to my story. And thanks for the forums.

[Jay Aitchsee]

I think it's possible than unresolved sleep apnea could cause liver problems (and lots of other problems).

Ravenous28, I see a few posts where it looks like you are trying to find methods to determine whether you have sleep apnea or not, but I don't see any of your SleepyHead or ResScan charts posted (pardon, if I missed them). Why don't you post a chart a two and let the board give you opinions on how it thinks you are doing? If your Sleep apnea is resolved, then you might be able to rule that out in connection with your liver function.

[ravenous28]

I know I have sleep apnea, I was diagnosed with it back in 2012 and was put on cpap with pressure of 15, didn’t comply with it and went the mouthpiece route for a while and then went back to the new apap airsense 10 auto recently. Airsense works ok for me and treats my ahi under 5 all the time (depending on what I set the range and epr because I swallow air bad and get gas) But the problem is i really want to see if I can get treatment from the mouthpiece alone instead now and I’m trying to determine compliance with the dental device vs using an airsense 10 auto . Now I know that the only real way to know is to get a sleep study done again with it but I’m mixing in a few variables such as a sp02 monitor recording all night/wearing the mouthpiece and all three variables with mouthpiece/4cm max pressure and oximeter etc. sleepyhead data monitoring. The main reason I’m doing all this is because I’m trying to determine how far out the mad device needs to be adjusted to work or not. The problem with the sleep study I have to pay for is you get 3 days at best with the mouthpiece and can only do 3 levels of titration. If I’m not at the proper level it will fail. But if I can get it at a decent level it might work. This is the pita issue with the whole mouthpiece compliance thing is there’s no real way to know if it’s working unless I go by feelings alone. Even if I do a sleep study I get 3 days at best to make it right to determine if it works. That’s why I was thinking putting an sp02 oximeter into the mix and apap on low pressure so I can get so some type of results from sleepyhead vs having none at all..

I’d post results and even my whole sleep study’s over the years but right now it’s all over the place unfortunately and it will be hard to gauge until I get the right variables in all this documented down...

[palerider]

can only do 3 levels of titration.

"titration" is a *process*, not a setting.

[Goofproof]

I'd think the major complication would be early death (by a thousand cuts), from the extra strain on the body without the needed repair in your sleep. Jim

[ravenous28]

can only do 3 levels of titration.

"titration" is a *process*, not a setting.

I didn’t mean to say I only have 3 levels of how far I can turn the mouthpiece out, I meant I only have 3 days to test only 3 specific levels I choose from on the mouthpiece during the home sleep study. Sorry for the typo. I have 24 half turns I can go on the mouthpiece. Right now I’m at 15 half turns for example. The amount of mandibular protrusion achievable is limited by patient anatomy and tolerance.

I don’t expect most people here to understand exactly what a MAD is or does being on a cpap talk forum. Here’s a video showing how it works. https://youtu.be/W1x8Z55Am1Q

I know what I’m doing is probably abnormal having 2 devices that are medically approved to treat obstructed sleep apnea and not a lot of people are in this position to have both at the same time..it’s either one or the other.

[ravenous28]

I'd think the major complication would be early death (by a thousand cuts), from the extra strain on the body without the needed repair in your sleep. Jim

I sometimes wonder what they used to do in the 1900s for people with sleep apnea if anything...I don’t think sleep apnea was discovered out until 1960s from what I read online I think. I wonder if it’s more of an issue today then it was back because of the way the culture eats and more people are obese now then before? Not to say obesity is the only reason because it’s not but we can say it’s considered a large factor atleast with obstructed

[palerider]

I don’t expect most people here to understand exactly what a MAD is or does being on a cpap talk forum.

You might be surprised. Many people here that are successfully using cpap have a MAD taking up space in a drawer somewhere.

[palerider]

I'd think the major complication would be early death (by a thousand cuts), from the extra strain on the body without the needed repair in your sleep. Jim

I sometimes wonder what they used to do in the 1900s for people with sleep apnea if anything...I don’t think sleep apnea was discovered out until 1960s from what I read online I think. I wonder if it’s more of an issue today then it was back because of the way the culture eats and more people are obese now then before? Not to say obesity is the only reason because it’s not but we can say it’s considered a large factor atleast with obstructed

You can always cut a hole in the throat to breathe through.

[Julie]

No, and it's not 'obstructed' but 'obstructive', which means air is kept from going down your airway by obstructions, i.e. a large uvula, tonsils, slack palate, etc... Weight is now thought to be a byproduct of apnea, not the other way around, tho' of course losing a LOT (e.g. 100 lbs) may help lower the amount of pressure a Cpap needs to keep your airway open... though it doesn't automatically mean you don't still need Cpap.

In any case, this is a Cpap forum, not a device forum and we help people to optimize Cpap, not MADs etc... but knock yourself out... hope you don't get TMJ and that a proper sleep study says you don't need Cpap.

[ravenous28]

No, and it's not 'obstructed' but 'obstructive', which means air is kept from going down your airway by obstructions, i.e. a large uvula, tonsils, slack palate, etc... Weight is now thought to be a byproduct of apnea, not the other way around, tho' of course losing a LOT (e.g. 100 lbs) may help lower the amount of pressure a Cpap needs to keep your airway open... though it doesn't automatically mean you don't still need Cpap.

In any case, this is a Cpap forum, not a device forum and we help people to optimize Cpap, not MADs etc... but knock yourself out... hope you don't get TMJ and that a proper sleep study says you don't need Cpap.

Thanks for the advice. I sure appreciate the nice comment about the tmj warning. Any other warnings I should know about? I only came here seeking help on sleep apnea related issues. If I’m not allowed to talk about the dental device then I won’t. It’s probably best if I take my problems to a certified sleep doctor at this point who isn’t bias towards only one approach. I’ll be sure to ask him about your warnings and my stupidity of my dr telling me it’s ok to try using an approved mouthpiece. Im not bashing cpap or the oral device. I understand most people here probably swear by cpap and nothing else. After all, this is a cpap talk forum. Just like some people like apple and Samsung phones. It wouldn’t be a good idea for me to go talk about a Samsung phone at an Apple forum even though we are still talking about the subject of phones. Atleast I’m trying to do something in seeking help for osa over the millions of others probably out there who will never even care to get diagnosed unfortunately. I know people who where on cpap and just left treatment because they assume they don’t have osa anymore because they lost weight.

[ravenous28]

I'd think the major complication would be early death (by a thousand cuts), from the extra strain on the body without the needed repair in your sleep. Jim

I sometimes wonder what they used to do in the 1900s for people with sleep apnea if anything...I don’t think sleep apnea was discovered out until 1960s from what I read online I think. I wonder if it’s more of an issue today then it was back because of the way the culture eats and more people are obese now then before? Not to say obesity is the only reason because it’s not but we can say it’s considered a large factor atleast with obstructed

You can always cut a hole in the throat to breathe through.

Nice...I did ask my dr about going to an ent for my mild to moderate osa and he won’t recommend surgery. But Atleast I know there’s always an option of getting a tracheotomy if worse comes to worse..so Atleast I have hope it all else fails. I don’t know what’s worse getting tmj from my oral device or getting a tracheotomy done when I could just use my airsense 10 siting on my bedside nightstand and call it a day?

[Julie]

I just wonder why you aren't taking more advantage of the forum to see how well you can (now) get Cpap working (again) because there are lots of knowledgeable and experienced people here to help and so many others have ruled out devices. A lot of others out there were not introduced to pap properly from the beginning, so keep running all over (if they bother at all) to find some other magic answer, but end up sort of where you seem to be... not in good places with half assed answers. Maybe if you got pap working properly now, you'd see why (hopefully) 02 isn't needed, why MADs aren't needed and/or didgeridoos or whatever. OK, not EVERYone can make Cpap work, but the vast majority can if they try and end up with a method to use every night, track how they're doing, tweak when necessary, but generally have a working and useful way to sleep (and stay alive). Seems a shame...

[Pugsy]

Hey folks.

OP can effectively use cpap if he wants to...no real problems with the mask or machine. He does well with it. He's not wanting or needing help in that area.

What he wants to do is use the MAD device instead of the cpap machine because that is what he WANTS to do.
He would rather use the oral device if it will adequately eliminate the OSA issues.

He is making plans to get a real sleep study done to verify that the device is doing a good enough job.

He's going about it the right way. His OSA is on the low end of moderate and there is every chance that the device might just do the trick.
Why beat him up just because he wants to treat his OSA differently than most of us? It's not like he wants to abandon therapy totally.

[Julie]

Why beat me up every time I post anything?