Can drugs help reduce OSA?

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Too tall
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Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:24 pm

Wonder what other's experience is with sleep medication and/ or pain medication such as xanax, ambian, opiates etc.... Has anyone benefited from these drugs? I've search threads and found one that recommended getting off of all sedation type drugs and alcohol. I agree on the alcohol but I think I'm seeing fewer OSA events when I take a little opiate medication at bed time. Also, I see benefit from Xanax. What appears to be happening, is my AHI is very low till the medications starts to wear off, then the OSA events increase. I am experimenting with this now as I've never taken opiates at bed time. I know the first reaction of people is negative because they have such a reputation among illegal users. I am, of course, talking about legal prescription medication taken under doctor's supervision.

I would appreciate any feedback from those who have seen a positive or negative affect from sedation drugs such as ambian, Xanax, opiates such as hydrocodone or oxyecodone etc. etc... I know all the negatives of these drugs social and being additive and all of that. I'm interested in discussing any benefits they may have in preventing or increasing OSA events.

thanks in advance.
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englandsf
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by englandsf » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:34 pm

Unless a drug could stop me actually needing CPAP (and I have AHIs under 2 on my machine) I see no logic in taking anything to reduce my AHI that is so serious a drug. Opiates in particular.

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Too tall
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:21 pm

englandsf wrote:Unless a drug could stop me actually needing CPAP (and I have AHIs under 2 on my machine) I see no logic in taking anything to reduce my AHI that is so serious a drug. Opiates in particular.
That's were I'm going with this. It seems it reduces the OSA to a point where maybe the CPAP would not be necessary for some people. Not all. (My original AHI was . I agree I would never take them for the sole purpose of reducing AHI with CPAP. I've taken them on and off for a neck injury for many years and only use them as need but it's just an interesting observation that they seem to reduce OSA, not increase it which is what I would have suspected.
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Julie
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Julie » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Well I think it's possible that you are chronically tense from your problems, and opiates allows that to lessen, and maybe along with that your airway so that your airway actually opens a bit more... either that or your whole nervous system relaxes to the point where apnea is no longer so obvious (though may be a serious hidden or latent problem), but I'd want to be extremely careful, first of the need for more and more as time went on (I know you only take it occasionally, but others might not), but also because what if some backlash were created that possibly led to e.g. centrals (clear airway apneas) that then may not be reversible and which are not something you'd want. Just rambling I guess, but the implications could be interesting.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Julie wrote:Well I think it's possible that you are chronically tense from your problems, and opiates allows that to lessen, and maybe along with that your airway so that your airway actually opens a bit more... either that or your whole nervous system relaxes to the point where apnea is no longer so obvious (though may be a serious hidden or latent problem), but I'd want to be extremely careful, first of the need for more and more as time went on (I know you only take it occasionally, but others might not), but also because what if some backlash were created that possibly led to e.g. centrals (clear airway apneas) that then may not be reversible and which are not something you'd want. Just rambling I guess, but the implications could be interesting.
That really makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:37 pm

Since all drugs have the possibility of unwanted side effects, (like addiction, and central apneas),
I sincerely hope this type of treatment is conducted under close supervision by a competent physician.
In an ideal world, moving air would be enough for everyone's apnea, but we all do what we can with what we have.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by TangledHose » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:09 pm

I've occasionally taken some Hydrocodone-acetaminophen 7.5/325 (fairly strong) and each time I have tried that it totally demolishes my sleep and my AHI soared, next day I am worthless. Not to mention that any opiates slow down the bowels and the result is not so fun constipation. So I completely stay away from it because it ruins my sleep. I've also read that opiates may make you drowsy, but they inhibit your ability to get good quality REM sleep and that's not good.

I wonder if you have a few centrals or obstructive apneas associated with REM and because the opiates keep you from going into REM that may be why you see your AHI go down - just a guess. Do you know if your apneas show up later in your sleep cycle indicating they might be associated with REM?

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by archangle » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:20 am

I think in general, no drugs improve apnea, and "relaxing" drugs tend to make it worse, especially in terms of causing central apnea.

I have no difficulty believing you actually get some reduction in apnea from some drugs in your particular case. There are a lot of complex interactions involved in respiration.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by kteague » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:39 am

Like a previous poster, I'm wondering if the increase at a time you say the drug wears off might coincide with REM and muddy the waters of interpretation. When you put your results side by side with a night with no meds, are there consistently more events early in the night on those non med nights? How many nights have you compared?

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Sclark08 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:22 am

I take Hydrocodone 7.5 when I absolutely need it. AHI always up on those nights because It supresses your breathing. You have to weigh the pros and cons.
Take the least amount of meds for the shortest period of time should be the rule!

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by englandsf » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:26 am

I'm still twitchy about using drugs instead of CPAP, my machine tells me what happens every night and safeguards me against change using APAP mode.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Julie » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:30 am

What?

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Tango » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:59 am

When taking Xanax perhaps you aren't tossing and turning as much? Til the wear off.
Just a thought.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:53 am

TangledHose wrote:I've occasionally taken some Hydrocodone-acetaminophen 7.5/325 (fairly strong) and each time I have tried that it totally demolishes my sleep and my AHI soared, next day I am worthless. Not to mention that any opiates slow down the bowels and the result is not so fun constipation. So I completely stay away from it because it ruins my sleep. I've also read that opiates may make you drowsy, but they inhibit your ability to get good quality REM sleep and that's not good.

I wonder if you have a few centrals or obstructive apneas associated with REM and because the opiates keep you from going into REM that may be why you see your AHI go down - just a guess. Do you know if your apneas show up later in your sleep cycle indicating they might be associated with REM?
I found the same thing with Hydrocodone-acetaminophen, I couldn't sleep with it. Oxyecodone along with a Xanax seems to be very beneficial. I know what this sounds like, but I'm not a drug addict or any of the stereotypes that go along with these two drugs. Unfortunately, the opiates have gotten a bad name because of the abuse, however, they can improve quality of life dramatically if you have chronic pain.

Yes, I see the increase in OSA later in the sleep cycle, just about the time I suspect the drugs are wearing off. I'll usually get up for a bathroom break about that time and the sleep for the next 4 hrs or so is when I get the majority of the OSA. This is kind of why I was thinking, take more drugs at the bathroom break. The half life on these drugs is so short, the effects don't last the entire night.

I track all this on sleepyhead and have seen no central apnea, only disruptions and OSA. Another thing that is strange unrelated to drugs is the chin strap vs tape. My AHI has gone up 1 point since switching to taping my mouth shut. I find that strange.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:59 am

kteague wrote:Like a previous poster, I'm wondering if the increase at a time you say the drug wears off might coincide with REM and muddy the waters of interpretation. When you put your results side by side with a night with no meds, are there consistently more events early in the night on those non med nights? How many nights have you compared?
Your suggestion is excellent and that's what I'm working on doing. I haven't gotten enough data yet to do a side by side comparison. I don't think it's rem sleep causing it because the OSA always seem to be worse after the bathroom break. I fall right back to sleep, maybe I'm going into rem and don't know it. Do you know if there is any way to tell if you are in REM with sleepyhead?
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