Nasty-looking cluster
Nasty-looking cluster
I haven't seen anything like this on my reports yet, and this is the highest AHI I've gotten since I started therapy. Can someone take a look at this and tell me what you see?
Is that possibly just mouth-breathing? Or did I really stop breathing for like 15 minutes?
Is that possibly just mouth-breathing? Or did I really stop breathing for like 15 minutes?
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Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine with Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Nuance & Nuance Pro Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Gel Nasal Pillows |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
It's NOT mouth breathing. Your leak line doesn't show any large leak during that time...in fact doesn't show much of any excess leak at all.
Something changed during that time frame allowing the airway to collapse because the pressure was insufficient at that time to keep the airway open.
The 2 most likely suspects are supine sleeping or REM sleep..or a little of both.
If you see this happening often then a pressure adjustment is needed. If it's a rare fluke and nothing else looks anywhere near this ugly then you may not want to do anything about it.
Something changed during that time frame allowing the airway to collapse because the pressure was insufficient at that time to keep the airway open.
The 2 most likely suspects are supine sleeping or REM sleep..or a little of both.
If you see this happening often then a pressure adjustment is needed. If it's a rare fluke and nothing else looks anywhere near this ugly then you may not want to do anything about it.
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Re: Nasty-looking cluster
What was the pressure / flow rate doing during those events? What pressure range do you have setup?
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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
Why did the respiratory rate drop during the cluster?
Just trying to learn a bit about this stuff.
Just trying to learn a bit about this stuff.
Cpapist
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
if you're not breathing, your rr goes down.CPAPIST wrote:Why did the respiratory rate drop during the cluster?
Just trying to learn a bit about this stuff.
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
But don't you huff and puff when the apnea is over and bring the rate up high? I've waken up like that before.
Cpapist
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
the huffing and puffing, as it were is right there on the flow chart, as is the lack of breathing. rr is just a moving average of how fast you're breathing, stop, and it goes down.CPAPIST wrote:But don't you huff and puff when the apnea is over and bring the rate up high? I've waken up like that before.
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
That looks pretty sick for about 12 minutes. No wonder he called it a nasty-looking cluster.
Cpapist
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
look at the data on the left side panel before asking questions like that next time.Sleeprider wrote:What was the pressure / flow rate doing during those events? What pressure range do you have setup?
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
I actually had pretty much the same question as CPAPIST regarding coming off of all of those apneas... usually when I have OAs, there's a pretty sharp spike in the flow rate immediately after, with it slowly settling back to normal flow rates (resting flow rate for me is right around or just over 20). This didn't show that at all - I immediately went right back to my "normal" flow rate without any increase at all. (Aren't those called recovery breaths?)
Another thing - it's possible for me to have been mouth breathing without leaking, I think. I catch myself doing it as I'm getting into bed just after I turn the machine on, usually. I'll be breathing through my mouth but not leaking out of my mouth as I'm doing it. (Trust me, I've done both - I know the difference.) Those two things put together are what's making me wonder if this might not be a horrendous bunch of apneas but rather me just opening my mouth and the machine being shut off from my airway. (No idea how that works anatomically, I just know I do it.)
Another thing - it's possible for me to have been mouth breathing without leaking, I think. I catch myself doing it as I'm getting into bed just after I turn the machine on, usually. I'll be breathing through my mouth but not leaking out of my mouth as I'm doing it. (Trust me, I've done both - I know the difference.) Those two things put together are what's making me wonder if this might not be a horrendous bunch of apneas but rather me just opening my mouth and the machine being shut off from my airway. (No idea how that works anatomically, I just know I do it.)
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Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine with Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Nuance & Nuance Pro Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Gel Nasal Pillows |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
I know what you mean about mouth breathing and no leak showing up...I do it myself. Proved it once by doing it while awake and still on the machine. It did NOT give me a truckload of OAs or hyponeas and in fact no events at all got flagged.JeffV wrote:Those two things put together are what's making me wonder if this might not be a horrendous bunch of apneas but rather me just opening my mouth and the machine being shut off from my airway. (No idea how that works anatomically, I just know I do it.)
Those ugly events are very likely the real deal unless you were maybe awake/semi awake during that period of time and awake breathing irregularities confused the machine but most of the time when/if that happens the events flagged are normally clear airway. Mouth breathing doesn't block off the airway/airflow like that.
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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
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Re: Nasty-looking cluster
Ok, fair enough. I guess it really comes down to how "smart" the machine is. What keeps getting stuck for me is - if I've got the nasal passage blocked with my tongue (or however that works - I know nothing about throat anatomy) but my airway is still open and I'm breathing through my mouth, the machine would never know that since it's completely blocked before it even gets to my airway and could well be reading that as a massive apnea.. I know it misreads apneas for me going to sleep - those three apneas it picked up before midnight I know for a fact I was still awake and reading a book. (I always put my mask on first since I tend to fall asleep on my book.)
If I think about it I'll see if I can recreate that going to bed tonight. I'll definitely keep an eye out to see if this happens again, and if nothing else I have an appointment with the sleep doc next week to discuss my pressures (and hopefully avoiding a titration study). I'll point this out to him too.
If I think about it I'll see if I can recreate that going to bed tonight. I'll definitely keep an eye out to see if this happens again, and if nothing else I have an appointment with the sleep doc next week to discuss my pressures (and hopefully avoiding a titration study). I'll point this out to him too.
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Mask: Nuance & Nuance Pro Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Gel Nasal Pillows |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
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Re: Nasty-looking cluster
My comment was to point out the missing pressure chart, but good point. Seems 7.0 cmH2O might not be an adequate ceiling pressure to overcome the OSA that caused this cluster for whatever reason. An increase in max pressure is indicated if this pattern returns.palerider wrote:look at the data on the left side panel before asking questions like that next time.Sleeprider wrote:What was the pressure / flow rate doing during those events? What pressure range do you have setup?
Hopefully Palerider will approve.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |
Re: Nasty-looking cluster
"ceiling pressure"? given that the machine is set at 7cm in cpap mode, not apap mode, the pressure chart doesn't matter much, in this case.Sleeprider wrote:My comment was to point out the missing pressure chart, but good point. Seems 7.0 cmH2O might not be an adequate ceiling pressure to overcome the OSA that caused this cluster for whatever reason. An increase in max pressure is indicated if this pattern returns.palerider wrote:look at the data on the left side panel before asking questions like that next time.Sleeprider wrote:What was the pressure / flow rate doing during those events? What pressure range do you have setup?
Hopefully Palerider will approve.
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
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Re: Nasty-looking cluster
I guess not.
This post was made by palerider who is currently on your ignore list
This post was made by palerider who is currently on your ignore list
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |