Sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your back

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
racprops
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Sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your back

Post by racprops » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:41 am

Well one thing that seems to have worked was my figuring out a way to stop myself from turning onto my back during sleep.

I just slept for 5 hours and 8 minutes. Nonstop.

I almost never do that, I normally wake up within two hours of going to bed and then again ever 2 to 3 hours all night.

And for the first sleep period I had NO sleep apneas, perfect score of ZERO.
Second sleep period was for 3:11 hours and only one part of a Apnea..a .12 clear air and a .36 Hypopnea.

I hope I have got all the parts worked out, new machine, and a way to stop me from pushing my blocking pillows away.

I lay a folded sheet over both pillows and then tuck the far side under the pillow, that seems to prevent my pushing them apart so even if I try to get on my back I can only partly make it and end up at a angle laying on my back supporting pillow.

Only problem was/is left shoulder pain from being on my left side for those 5.8 hours.

But it seems to going away after an hour of wake time.

Now to see if it will work all the time AND if getting longer sleep times will really work.

I have high hope this will keep working and I can get the real resting sleep I so need.

Today is so far so good, time of this note is 10:320AM. And I feel good,

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Last edited by racprops on Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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grayghost4
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by grayghost4 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:51 pm

If it continues to work for you ... you might want to look at some of the large body pillows:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... ody+pillow


and then for the women who's mate travel or work nights there is this one :

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Comfort-BF ... ab_pd_tr_3
If you're not part of the solution you're just scumming up the bottom of the beaker!

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racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:00 am

Thanks, I already have such a long pillow for my back blocker and as I sleep slightly curled up a standard size pair of pillows work as my front pillows and I have a very thin one for my legs.

Yesterday was one of the best I have had in a month.

Second night again looking better, I slept 1:31 hours the first season BUT I then got 4:56 hours of sleep and when I tried to go back to sleep I stayed in bed for 30 minutes and was so awake I could not go back to sleep.

I really think I am at last getting real restful sleep.

So far I feel good.

Crossed fingers...and toes.

Rich



grayghost4 wrote:If it continues to work for you ... you might want to look at some of the large body pillows:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... ody+pillow


and then for the women who's mate travel or work nights there is this one :

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Comfort-BF ... ab_pd_tr_3

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racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:11 pm

A update on my progress, as I have position triggered apnea I HAVE to stay off getting flat on my back.

This is the third day with my sheet wrapped dual pillows and my third good day.

It seems to be working.

Rich

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Julie
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by Julie » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:28 pm

Would love to know what difference it's made to your numbers.

racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:55 pm

All three nights LOW under one..IE:

11/14/14:
Tuesday a little CA @ .12 and Hypopnea @ .36

Wednesday CA@ 0 Hypopnea @ .68

Thursday CA @ 0 Hypopnea @.13

Friday CA @ 0 Hypopnea @ .12

No other problems..

Of course I have had such reports BUT these nights I am sleeping at lease one sleep session that last 4 to 5 hours where I used to wake up nearly every two to three hours..

I really think the key is I am at last reaching deep restful sleep with the longer sleep sessions.

I do feel more awake and have not had a major slump for all three days.

Rich

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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by grayghost4 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:08 pm

I have the same kind of positional apnea, but I can not sleep on my side all night due to shoulder pain. I decided to try another solution : Mandibular Advancement Devices (MAD)

http://www.dentalsleepsolutions.com/ind ... ep-devices

I use this in combination with cpap , this allows me to sleep on my back and still get good therapy.
i have the cpap set at 4 cm. and get AHI under 1
After further adjustment to the MAD I will go for another sleep test, without the cpap and see if the MAD will replace the cpap.
If you're not part of the solution you're just scumming up the bottom of the beaker!

Get the Clinicians manual here : http://apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap-press ... tup-manual

racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:36 pm

As I get Centrals Or Clear Air and ALMOST never Obstructive apneas I don't think such a device will help me.

And I too have had shoulder pain and at first need pain pills to handle it... a year ago.

And as long as I don't get fully onto my back or fully flat I get these numbers...so keeping me off flat and slightly tilted seems to work for me.

And I have bad apnea, I am on a ASV Machine as I mainly have Centrals and Hypopnea.

Rich


grayghost4 wrote:I have the same kind of positional apnea, but I can not sleep on my side all night due to shoulder pain. I decided to try another solution : Mandibular Advancement Devices (MAD)

http://www.dentalsleepsolutions.com/ind ... ep-devices

I use this in combination with cpap , this allows me to sleep on my back and still get good therapy.
i have the cpap set at 4 cm. and get AHI under 1
After further adjustment to the MAD I will go for another sleep test, without the cpap and see if the MAD will replace the cpap.

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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by Nick Danger » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:35 pm

Wonderful news, Rich!

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racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:21 am

I forgot to say I have complex sleep apnea with positional apneas.

Rich

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racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:41 am

Well I did get some proof of how my pillow set up works and what happens when it fails.

The last two nights have not been as good as the earlier 5 nights, seems I am fighting it in my sleep.

Last night I defeated the tuck wrap.

I had a normal (for me) 1:24 with 0 AHIs first sleep season, then I woke up after 4 hours (3:57) to high of 5.11 AHI (the rating numbers of apneas) for that sleep season. I found that my back pillow’s tuck had failed and come lose allow me to get flat on my back again.

I re-warped the pillows and got another 3:23 hours of a third sleep season and a AHI for that .30 AHI.

Dynamic proof of how it works.

NOW I can only hope I cannot defeat it in my sleep too often.

Yesterday was a little run down..not sure why..I did have problems breathing the air from our munch fire, (in west Phoenix) especially in the afternoon when I was so bad I could not work in my shop…we even turned on the A/C to help clean the air. The night before was great BY THE NUMBERS of a low .15 AHI…and I had a sleep season of 4:12 hours. Although I did wake up once or twice even in my longest sleep season to just go right back to sleep, did that spoil that sleep season?? I think so.

So the $64,000 question is now which is more important, low AHIs (which I have had before and still have bad days) OR getting 4 or more hours of solid sleep??

Last night I covered above…So it is early morning and I will see how today goes.

Rich

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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:27 am

I have found that the AHI reports is like a old school teacher Grading on a Curve, the AHI DURING a series of apneas during a sleep season of 2 to 3 hours of sleep can in fact be a lot higher that the total for the whole night. (I cover that in one of my posts below)

AND I find IF I don't get a lease one three to four hour sleep season of good no AHI sleep I have NOT got a good nights sleep and will be a zombie the next day.


Here is a bunch of posts that I have been posting on my face book pages, this shows my efforts to get a good nights and how I have fixed this problem with pillows wrapped in sheets so that I am laying ON the sheet holding the pillows from being moved them part by myself.

AND using a night vision camera (Sony CCD-TRV87 Camcorder)to record my sleeping:

PS I was able to transfer it to my computer so I can post it as well.

THIS IS WORKING FOR ME: IT MIGHT WORK FOR YOU.

11-29-2014
There has been times when I kind of question how real Sleep Apnea IS!!

I got my answer: It is very real problem.

Last night I watched a very moving tape of my self-having a serious apnea season.

During the last six minutes of sleep as I woke up, I SAW myself stop breathing for two clear air apneas for seventeen seconds and for then for eighteen seconds and hardly breathe (Hypopnea) for three times for eighteen and then for nineteen seconds and then for thirty three seconds.

I was watching myself on a video tape I made using an old VHS Machine that can record for nine hours using a old Sony video camera that has real night vision.

And this could not be a better film: I had tossed off my covers so I was clearly visible: and I can see that I had woken up and even looked at the VHS machine to check the time and the flopped back down flat on my back and fell asleep again.

Even better my left hand fell on top of my chest, so that I could really see my breathing…honest this was all unplanned and not faked…I just fell back asleep on my back with my hand on my chest with no clovers and saw my breathing stop five times in less than six minutes..

And I saw the ASV Machine pumping as hard as it can trying to breath for me…you can see the face mask pumping up and down like an Alien Face Hugger as the machine tried to keep me breathing..and you can see me not take a breath on my own and you can see that the machine cannot really ventilate me as my chest did NOT rise or fall during the cycles..then you can see that I took a breath on my own and the mask stopped pumping up and down until the next apnea cycle.

During that last six minutes I had an AHI rating of 36.35!!

And even more interesting is up until that last six minutes I have a AHI rating of ZERO: NO APNEAS for five hours and fifteen minutes, not until I got flat on my back after moving my blocking pillows apart during my sleep movements…somehow…After I get the rest of my sleep I will watch this tape farther back and see if I can see how I worked my blocking pillows apart allowing me to fall back asleep on my back.

These things is made VERY CLEAR: A) sleep apnea is very real B) I cannot allow myself to get flat on my back because C) IF I do: I stop breathing, and D) I seem to be able to defeat my own plans and push apart my blocking pillow in my sleep.

Lastly this WILL be an ongoing battle for the rest of my life and each time I fail to stay off my back it can hurt my health and mess up the following day leaving me unable to fully function and do any complex work.
11-30-14
Well I did it again last night, I defeated my blocking back pillow and got flat enough to cause a AHI of 3.23 in 2.5 hours of sleep.

I checked the video and saw how it happened. SO I added a booster pillow under the back part of my main back blocker pillow making it more of a wall than a wedge and I stayed on my side for the second sleep season of 3.5 hours with an AHI .28 which is good.

I will use this new setup for the next few days and see if it can stop my having Apneas.

I also want to amend yesterday’s report, my ASV Machine does in fact ventilate me, I transferred my recording to my computer and with the smaller screen I could see that when the machine was pushing air into me at its higher pressures my chest was rising slightly. So it was indeed doing its job as best as it can.

12-1-14
OK Here we go with another sleep report.

WHY??

Because for me this is even in some ways a bigger problem that my Heart Surgery. That was a problem for only a few months to perhaps a year before and a problem recovery from for six months.

At this point I cannot say how bad sleep apnea has been. For over two decades I have had what I believe to be chronic fatigue.

And I still seem to be fighting it.

BUT it seems it COULD be a combination sleep apnea and perhaps a Autoimmune Disorder causing chronic fatigue.

Currently my Sleep Apnea is leading and as I master my sleep I can track cause and effect: A Good night sleep and I have a good day. A Bad night sleeping and I have what seems to be chronic fatigue.

It is tricky; a good night is not a total of hours spent sleeping.

It is a total of how those hours are spent sleeping.

I find I need at least one sleep season of four hours with NO sleep apnea a night… two to three hour sleep seasons with some apneas is no good. Those give me chronic fatigue for the next day.
This has been the reason it has taken me over six months to do a model run I should be able to do in two.

This problem is having a MAJOR Impact on my life.

I am reporting these things as a way of helping those with these health problems, and as a warning to anyone that might have these problems…

Lastly so someone that might have an idea or knows something that might help with an offer of their advice.

Lastly my improved pillow blockers are again working and I had what is by the report as a GOOD night's sleep. And again only how the rest of the day goes will be the proof of the pudding.

12-5-14
Well I did it again.

Somehow I defeated my blocking pillows and got flat enough to have a major batch of apneas.

Last night during my first sleep season of 2hours and 44 minutes I did an AHI of 4.01 for the total sleep time, this was the worst reading for the past month.

The night vision camera is worth its weight in gold.

Without it I would not have known that I turned over onto my back and during the last 22.27 minutes produced an AHI of 29.38.

I will now have to see what when wrong with my blocking pillows!

I think it was that my holding wrapped around sheet is now trying to hold both of my back blocking pillows and it is not long enough to go around both pillows and have any underneath me to prevent my pushing them away from the front blocking pillow.

I plan on removing the second pillow from the wrap and after getting some of the sheet to now go under me so my own weight holds it so I cannot push them apart and then placing the second pillow underneath it.

And the fight goes on.

12-5-14
And again I defeated my blocking pillows and got on my back once again for the second sleep season…this was 3 hours and 52 minutes of poor sleep with an AHI of 1.55.

Watching the video show that I did indeed find a way to get over mainly on my back. I am considering either buying a longer piece of cloth that I can get totally under me so I cannot spread the pillows OR a hard back board 90 degrees to the bed, braced against the wall.

12-6-14
File this under: “You can’t win!” :

Well the double wrappings seem to be working. Two sleep seasons in, ZERO apneas, first season 3:26 long and the second one called due to pain was only 2:16 minutes long. Total of 5:420 sleep.

IT is Too soon to know if I have stopped myself from working them apart.

Now my old problem of sleeping on my side has returned…hip and shoulder pain.

I thought I had gotten used to sleeping on my side but it now seems all I had done was to work my way on to my back and caused a fair number of apneas. Which could be the main reason I was having such a bad year…I was unable to catch my self-getting on to my back and thus messed up my sleep every night.

Also I seemed to have been wrong about my being able to sleep partly on my back laying slightly raised up on my back pillow..I can now see thanks to the night vision that does not work, it is nearly as bad as full on flat on my back.

I had been living or rather sleeping in a fool’s paradise.

Now I will have to see if getting around 3.5 to 4 hours of apnea free sleep but waking up due to the pain will be worth it, IE even with the discomfort, will I have bright and awake days.

And will I get used to sleeping on my side to get better sleep.

At lease it is not as bad a pain that I cannot sleep or too bad when I wake up.

The first month I started using the blocking pillows and forcing myself to sleep on my side was a nightmare of pain..so bad I took prescription pain pills to get by.

The battle goes on.

12-7-14
Ok in spite of my food poisoning problem, (Well I did not plan on this, food poisoning.

After super about 5 hours later I when to bed and sleep I woke up an hour and 1/2 later with a belly pain..within an hour I was throwing up…and hitting the bathroom.

I hooked up my Jim Cullen zapper as soon as I could and sat with it for an hour…one more upchuck and bathroom visit and it seems to be over.

As always I cannot say if the zapper stopped it or I was just not all that sick, I cannot risk letting it run its course, I took two carbon pills and use the machine.

It has been three hours lost with this mess. I will be going back to bed…At least it was not an all-nighter…)

I had another fairly good night sleep wise when I was able to sleep.

I got 6 hours and 12 minutes of sleep with an AHI of ZERO again.

And I seem to have fixed my shoulder and hip pain by folding up a small blanket so that it fits between my arm pit and my hip and gives me about 2/3 inches of support, lifting my body slightly off my arm and hip.

I don’t have even a hint of pain.

So here is the total setup:

Two back blocking pillows stacked one on top of another wrapped in a folder sheet so that I lay ON the sheet making it nearly impossible to push aside, a front pillow with a second folded sheet wrapped around it as well and again I lay ON its sheet making moving it aside as nearly impossible.

On top of the front pillow I then add another movable arm rest pillow.

Then there is my hear pillow which is a feather pillow and the there is another pillow I can rest my arm on. I find if my arm is at a more or less 90 degrees to the bed it is less likely to hurt.

Then a thin leg pillow to go between my knees and ankles.

Lastly I have the Sony Camcorder without its own tape (this makes it stay on as long as I want it, put in a tape and it will automatically shut down, I think to save ware on the tape and transport) These have video outputs which I currently run to an old VHS Tape machine with an OLD 9 nine hour tape which will then record a full night’s sleep. With a Svideo out I am looking into getting an adaptor to switch the recording to a Laptop.

I use its remote to start and stop the recordings and to get a early look at my total sleep time or sleep season.

I have found this system really did the trick for me

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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by palerider » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:28 am

racprops wrote:There has been times when I kind of question how real Sleep Apnea IS!!
I got my answer: It is very real problem.
These things is made VERY CLEAR: A) sleep apnea is very real
well, that's good to know, I'd thought it was all a scam cooked up by arch's mafia to get money out of us all!

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racprops
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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by racprops » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:07 pm

I feared that “they” might have taken a minor problem and blown it all out of reason to sell us treatments and machines we might not really need.

There is a very high level of what can look like scamming running through all of this.

Over price treatments, overpriced Doctors visits (I was seeing a Cardiologist for less per visit...) over priced sleep studies, ($2000.00 per person per night (8 hours avg.) with two persons per sleep TECH per night...total of $4000.00 a night..god I wish I could make that kind of money) claims of how you might die from side effects from lack of treatment, I love how it can cause over weight and yet no one has been able to say how they lost fat thanks to JUST the sleep treatment…and seemly uncaring badly informed Doctors and suppliers…

Horror stories of the Trucking companies getting a brand new sleep center near their companies and then having ever driver ordered to be tested….

My own story of a Sleep Doctor and how he pulled power trips and how I ended up self-treating myself.

So I was kind of thinking they were making mountains out of ant hills…JUST to make a buck.

Rich

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Re: Hope and sharing a possible solution to sleeping on your ba

Post by calusa » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:03 am

What are "blocking pillows"?

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