Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
tlewis303
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Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:45 am

Anyone agree that there is a link between this 2 issues?
My T level is around 233 which is considered low, I feel sick most of the time, foggy headed and have memory issues. I waiting for some more details lab results but I'm hoping this is the cause of my sickness and fatigue. I also have mild-moderate OSA. Even though the cpap keeps my AHI low I still have fragmented sleep.

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bv1800
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bv1800 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:06 pm

According to this link, there is a relationship between Low T and OSA. The problem is that there isn't much research for the causal relationship (which is cause and which is effect). There's a VERY strong link between worsening OSA and T therapy. I had T levels very close to yours. My PCP put me on T therapy while I waited to do the sleep studies, a year ago. By the time that the 1st study was done, I noticed a definited decline in my sleep quality. By the time that I had my titration study, in Nov of last year, I was absolutely miserable. I went from being a little sleepy after 8 hrs of sleep, to "sleeping" for 10+ hours and being almost non-responsive during the day (during this time period, my wife was seriously concerned that I wasn't going to have to be institutionalized). I stopped doing the treatments in late Nov. It took until January or so, for the effects to complete wear off.

There's are several threads in this forum were other men report similar impact of T therapy. A couple people said their required pressure when down 2-3 CM, after stopping T therapy. I had mild aerophagia in Feb-May. Looking back, I'm reasonably sure that I needed to drop my pressure by a couple CM, but I was too new to the treatment to understand what was going on.

http://blogs.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/ ... ealth.html

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Greg Riddle
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Greg Riddle » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:28 pm

I'm not sure of there is a link but since I've gotten some of the bugs worked out my wife has to keep a stock near by because I will not leave her alone

tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:49 am

Do they know what the cause is for Low T therapy making OSA worse?
I'm hoping the foggyiness I've had for 4 + years will go away with Low T therapy.
I'll have to see if it effects my sleep. I read that Low T can affect sleeping in a negative way.

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by VictorC » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:16 am

This is all anecdotal of course. But I have probably had OSA for years. But I never really felt bad during the day. I am usually sleep deprived anyway, so I just assumed that that was the cause for my being tired in the afternoon. Anyway, seven years ago I started to experience erectile disfunction. When I finally talked to my doctor about it (several years later) he diagnosed me with low testosterone and put me on testosterone replacement therapy. Initially it made me feel better. I was more alert, and had more energy. But after a while my testosterone levels continued to drop, and I grew more tired during the day. Around the same time my wife started telling me about my choking sounds while sleeping. Now this could just be coincidence, but the timing does make me wonder if my testosterone replacement might have made my OSA worse.

If OSA can cause a drop in testosterone, then I'm hoping that now that I am using a CPAP my levels will naturally increase over time.

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by englandsf » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:26 am

In general once you start taking testosterone supplement your body stops making testosterone. Your body can sense the presence of testosterone and stops production. There are experimental treatments that involve the same drugs as fertility treatments in women. I have OSA (diagnosed June) and marginal T levels (250) and I am awaiting my six month review later this month.

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bv1800
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bv1800 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:36 am

tlewis303 wrote:Do they know what the cause is for Low T therapy making OSA worse?
I'm hoping the foggyiness I've had for 4 + years will go away with Low T therapy.
I'll have to see if it effects my sleep. I read that Low T can affect sleeping in a negative way.
I haven't found anything that demonstrates an understanding of "why". In fact, the link that I posted explicitly states that it needs to be studied. That said, from a simple "causation" perspective (as in what "causes" what), it would appear that OSA causes low T. Otherwise, getting T therapy would improve OSA, as opposed to making it worse. I know that in my case, being 90-100 lbs over my ideal weight greatly contributed to low T. There's a well documented relationship between carrying excess fat, low T and even an increase in estrogen, in men. My doc described my OSA/low T/high fat (it's not # of lbs, but # lbs of fat) as a "death spiral". For me weight, in terms of excess fat, does appear to be a large contributor to my OSA which leads to low T which leads to more fat gain. All of this is accompanied with a feeling of lethargy which makes exercise difficult to do consistently. This could also be a matter of OSA being the primary thing that leads to weight gain (there is a considerable proportion of fat OSA sufferers who are fat due to OSA and not the other way around) which can lead to low T. In general, when it comes to fat and OSA, it's is a chicken and egg thing, but in either case (where OSA caused the fat or the fat caused the OSA to become a problem), low T follows the other two, for SOME men.

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bv1800 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:43 am

VictorC wrote: If OSA can cause a drop in testosterone, then I'm hoping that now that I am using a CPAP my levels will naturally increase over time.
Had my T level rechecked in Sept, which is 1 yr after being diagnosed with low T. My T level doubled. Part would be due to weight loss (I'd lost 43 lb which was ~15% of starting weight), but I'm confident that significant part was due to CPAP therapy (I had a noticeable change in "motivation" 2-3 months into treatment and was carrying the 280 lbs that I'd started with).

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:24 pm

They do say that low T can cause poor sleep quality even outside of OSA. My issues have always been foggy head and fatigue for several years. I quit smoking about 7 months ago and put on about 15-20lbs. Which has been hard to get rid of. Low T can make it impossible to get rid of weigh too. I heard the androgel doesn't work for every man?

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men-- VictorC

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:41 pm

VictorC,
How long did it take on the therapy before you felt better?

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bv1800 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:44 pm

tlewis303 wrote: I heard the androgel doesn't work for every man?
I saw a story on the news today, that not only does it not work for some men, but it does more harm than good (heart attacks, etc), for some.

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:03 am

I know that Zinc levels need to be good in order to produce T at good levels.
I wonder if thats something to look into?

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Nozzelnut » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:45 am

Have them check your thyroid too; I had similar symptoms foggy head and memory issues when my TSH was over 7. I also had some low T issues, but decided not to treat because of age and side effect risk, hoping that treating the OSA and losing weight would help turn things around in a more natural way. I haven't had the T retested in 8 months but I'm not experiencing the symptoms of it right now; something I'm keeping an eye on though.

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:39 am

Just had thyroid checked, TSH was 2.89, right in the middle. T is ar 233 and free T at 248.
If I can get T under control maybe sleep will be better. Worried about cardiac issues with Androgel in some men.

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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bv1800 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:44 am

tlewis303 wrote:...
If I can get T under control maybe sleep will be better.
Given the fact that there's strong evidence that T therapy destroys sleep and none that I can find that indicates that increasing T improves sleep, I'd conclude that you need to fix your sleep to improve T levels.

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