Big Change when switching mask Help

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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fdw
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Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:22 am

This first graph is with my new AirFit F10 FFM......BTW it works great. The second is with the nasal mask I've used for more than 7 years (in profile) which I love.

Please notice the pressure increases and increase in AHI.




Please comment
Last edited by fdw on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:06 am, edited 4 times in total.
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:38 am

I don't know about others, but I can't see your graphs. The images don't open. Have you made them publicly available?

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Last edited by Jay Aitchsee on Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Julie
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Julie » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:38 am

Don't know if it's me or my Mac, but there's only blanks where you've apparently posted graphs.

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:23 am

Sorry,

Don' know what happen to the graphs but there back
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:38 am

Well, that's interesting. It looks like the FFM got rid of the mouth leaks, but your AHI picked up. Not that it would make much difference, but did you remember to change the mask setting on the machine with the change in mask? Do you need that short ramp setting, with the low starting pressure?
How do you feel after changing masks? Forgetting the AHI, which do feel allows you to sleep better?

This is just guess, but I suppose it's possible that the lower leak rate and the change in the type of leak with the FFM may allow the machine to detect and report more events than with the nasal mask. Again, just a guess. I'm sure others will have some ideas about this theory

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Last edited by Jay Aitchsee on Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:46 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Well, that's interesting. It looks like the FFM got rid of the mouth leaks, but your AHI picked up. Not that it would make much difference, but did you remember to change the mask setting on the machine with the change in mask? Do you need that short ramp setting, with the low starting pressure?
How do you feel after changing masks? Forgetting the AHI, which do feel allows you to sleep better?
Yes, changed to FaceMask from Nasal. I like the Ramp on but short...i normally fall asleep within 5 minutes of going to bed, WHY? I feel fine...my wife said I looked a little tired this morning.

What has me confused is the increase in pressure, and more OA's?????????
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:This is just guess, but I suppose it's possible that the lower leak rate and the change in the type of leak with the FFM may allow the machine to detect and report more events than with the nasal mask. Again, just a guess. I'm sure others will have some ideas about this theory
Sorry, I added this while you were posting your last.

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49er
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by 49er » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:57 am

fdw wrote:
Jay Aitchsee wrote:Well, that's interesting. It looks like the FFM got rid of the mouth leaks, but your AHI picked up. Not that it would make much difference, but did you remember to change the mask setting on the machine with the change in mask? Do you need that short ramp setting, with the low starting pressure?
How do you feel after changing masks? Forgetting the AHI, which do feel allows you to sleep better?
Yes, changed to FaceMask from Nasal. I like the Ramp on but short...i normally fall asleep within 5 minutes of going to bed, WHY? I feel fine...my wife said I looked a little tired this morning.

What has me confused is the increase in pressure, and more OA's?????????
fdw,

Sleep techs on the sleep binary forum have mentioned that the reason full face masks might lead to an increased AHI is they push the jaw back which leads to more apneas. Obviously that isn't proof of anything but you're not the first person this has happened to. But as Jay inferred, if you feel that you are sleeping well with the full face mask, then numbers are irrelevant.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:01 am

49er wrote:Sleep techs on the sleep binary forum have mentioned that the reason full face masks might lead to an increased AHI is they push the jaw back which leads to more apneas
Likewise, a plausible theory.

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:41 am

That's all fine, I was also wearing a chin strap with the FFM, wouldn't think that would make any difference?

The pressure increase Maximum hit the ceiling of 14.6......Im now thinking I need to increase the Minimum and Maximum, but to what?
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:05 am

Your AHI at 3.5 wasn't terribly high. It could be just you body adjusting to another form of therapy (another theory). If I were you, I wouldn't change anything for a few nights, wear the FFM, and see what happens. If the pressure continually hits the upper setting, you could increase it after that.

Do you think your mouth would drop out of the FFM without the chinstrap? Or, do you mouth breathe to the extent of having extremely dry mouth? If not, I would consider not wearing it. There is a theory, similar to that which 49 mentioned, that chin straps also tend to pull the jaw back increasing the potential for obstructions.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by ChicagoGranny » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:13 am

they (FFMs) push the jaw back
Close your mouth now in its normal relaxed position. Now push on your chin. Push it back hard in an attempt to push the jaw back. You can't do it. Neither does a FFM push the jaw back.

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:32 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Your AHI at 3.5 wasn't terribly high. It could be just you body adjusting to another form of therapy (another theory). If I were you, I wouldn't change anything for a few nights, wear the FFM, and see what happens. If the pressure continually hits the upper setting, you could increase it after that.

Do you think your mouth would drop out of the FFM without the chinstrap? Or, do you mouth breathe to the extent of having extremely dry mouth? If not, I would consider not wearing it. There is a theory, similar to that which 49 mentioned, that chin straps also tend to pull the jaw back increasing the potential for obstructions.
No, but the feeling of not wearing the chin strap gave me jaw fatigue with the FFM on, once I put the Chin Strap on that fatigue stopped. No dry mouth, but then again it's only been 1 night with the FFM.
I understand theories are just that theories.....I will NOT dismiss the possibilities in my case...it's just that I've used a chin strap for nearly 20 years and only used a FFM for 1 day.
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:55 am

A little closer look and OAI's and pressure increases....still looks as if the machine is a little slow to the punch
Last edited by fdw on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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palerider
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by palerider » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:10 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
they (FFMs) push the jaw back
Close your mouth now in its normal relaxed position. Now push on your chin. Push it back hard in an attempt to push the jaw back. You can't do it. Neither does a FFM push the jaw back.
that's not accurate. normal jaws have a range of forward and backward motion.

I've found that my jaw seems to be a bit forward when using nasal pillows, ie, my lower teeth are meeting, or even slighty in front of my upper teeth when at pressure, while my lower teeth rest behind my upper teeth when I normally close my mouth.

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