water drops in nasal pillow

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djn1
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water drops in nasal pillow

Post by djn1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:15 am

Hello, I am using resmed s9 autopap with resmed P10 nasal pilow and H1 humidifier. Used system for about 6 hours last nite and found 4 drops of water in nasal pillow . temprature is 72 and humidity is set to 6. what should i do to minimize water droplets?bring down humidity to 5.5?? thanks.

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englandsf
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by englandsf » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:21 am

6 is the very highest - typically a winter setting. I would try 3 for a night, but I like it dry and run at zero in TX right now. Where are you and what's your humidity like?

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Pugsy
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by Pugsy » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:31 am

You have to keep the air in the nasal pillows warmer so it doesn't cool down and release the moisture or reduce the amount of moisture in the air in the nasal pillows.

Read my more detailed version here..2nd and 3rd posts in this thread.
Bumps in the road thread viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html

If the excess is from the moisture in your own exhaled breath then reducing the humidifier setting is unlikely to help reduce the condensation. There are people who don't use a humidifier at all that get rain out from the moisture in their own exhaled breath.

If your nose needs the high humidity setting (mine does) then you might just want to increase the temperature to the air in the hose.
Increasing the ambient air temp in the bedroom might also be an option.

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djn1
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by djn1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:12 am

HI, I am in The Caribbean where it never gets below 74 on the coldest night. The like the humidity high since its usually very warm and dry.thx

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englandsf
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by englandsf » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:51 am

I always thought the Caribbean had high humidity - that coupled with a 6 setting could easily cause condensation but not sure why it would be in the pillows not the hose unless your breath is adding to it... either way I'd try dropping the setting a lot and retest how you feel and why droplets you see.

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead SW. NeilMed and Alkalol Nasal rinses. Veramyst. AutoPAP 11-20 cms. Started June '14, untreated AHI 31-38, with PAP around 1.

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Pugsy
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by Pugsy » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:31 am

englandsf wrote:not sure why it would be in the pillows not the hose unless your breath is adding to it... either way I'd try dropping the setting a lot and retest how you feel and why droplets you see.
Dropping the humidity setting won't fix condensation from our own exhaled breath. People living in the high desert and not using a humidifier at all have reported condensation in the nasal pillows.

"dropping the humidifier setting a lot" can really mess up the nasal mucosa if the person's nasal mucosa need/want that moisture. Meaning the negative side effects can last for days. Remember that story I told you about when I dropped my setting a lot??? It was 3 days before my nose started to even begin to feel better and 5 days before it returned to normal. It was a miserable 5 days.

Minimal to none humidity isn't the fix for all the world's cpap problems. I know it works for you very well but believe me.......it doesn't work for everyone and in some cases can cause harm.

The best fix for condensation in the mask and the person says they like their current humidity settings is to try to warm up the air so that the air in the mask doesn't cool and release the moisture....either warm up the air coming through the hose (heated hose or hose cozy or barrel cozy for nasal pillows) or warm up the bedroom air.

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englandsf
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by englandsf » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:46 pm

Not sure that high climate driven humidity plus high machine added humidity are not contributing to the problem. The body may not be absorbing all the "input" moisture. I've had similar issues but only when I was using max humidifier setting and we had wet nights. Possible?

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead SW. NeilMed and Alkalol Nasal rinses. Veramyst. AutoPAP 11-20 cms. Started June '14, untreated AHI 31-38, with PAP around 1.

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palerider
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by palerider » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:58 pm

Pugsy wrote:
englandsf wrote:more one size fits all possibly bad advice deleted
Dropping the humidity setting won't fix condensation from our own exhaled breath. People living in the high desert and not using a humidifier at all have reported condensation in the nasal pillows.

"dropping the humidifier setting a lot" can really mess up the nasal mucosa if the person's nasal mucosa need/want that moisture. Meaning the negative side effects can last for days. Remember that story I told you about when I dropped my setting a lot??? It was 3 days before my nose started to even begin to feel better and 5 days before it returned to normal. It was a miserable 5 days.

Minimal to none humidity isn't the fix for all the world's cpap problems. I know it works for you very well but believe me.......it doesn't work for everyone and in some cases can cause harm.
englandsf only has one drum to beat, but he beats it with vigor.

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englandsf
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by englandsf » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:14 pm

And not all humidity comes from one source. It's cumulative and has to be very high to condense at 74 degrees. Just saying... it's physics.

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Pugsy
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by Pugsy » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:24 pm

englandsf wrote:Not sure that high climate driven humidity plus high machine added humidity are not contributing to the problem. The body may not be absorbing all the "input" moisture. I've had similar issues but only when I was using max humidifier setting and we had wet nights. Possible?
High humidity going in is going to contribute to the air in the nasal pillow and mix that with exhaled air containing moisture and of course the chance of condensation in the nasal pillow is going to occur.
BUT for some people who prefer the higher humidity the better alternative is to warm the air than to reduce the humidity level coming in. The condensation is less of an evil than what upsetting the nasal mucosa evil might do. Condensation is annoying....won't kill us....won't make us sick...won't make us feel like total crap for 3 to 5 days.....at worst condensation disrupts sleep momentarily.
I will take that over being sick with angry nasal mucosa any day of the week.

Picture your worst sinus infection you have ever had...the headache...the toothache...the pressure...the congestion....the drainage and how bad you felt...that's what can happen when the nasal mucosa get dried out for those of us whose nasal mucosa need or want the added moisture. Do you really want that to happen to someone you gave advice to?

Again...people who don't even use a humidifier at all...not attached...not even passover mode...have complained of rain out in all the types of masks.
What do you tell those people? Dry out their bedroom air more with a dehumidifier?

If someone tells you they like lots of moisture and they aren't complaining of congestion or anything other than the annoying rain out...why tell people something that could potentially cause harm without explaining the ramifications of what you suggest?
Why create a potential problem with the nasal mucosa (who up to this point are happy or the person would be complaining of typical nasal congestion/drainage issues) when a relatively simple alternate idea might be simply increase the air temp?
Why add another potential difficult adjustment for a person that is happy otherwise, when all that might be needed is 1 or 2 more degrees of warmth in the mask?

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englandsf
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by englandsf » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:48 pm

Scaring folks into NEVER testing lower humidity is a disservice that an experience user like you, Pugsy, would surely want to avoid?

The value of this board is surely teaching folks how to try different options in an organized and measuring way - isn't it?

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead SW. NeilMed and Alkalol Nasal rinses. Veramyst. AutoPAP 11-20 cms. Started June '14, untreated AHI 31-38, with PAP around 1.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:53 pm

Sometimes I wake up with a wet nose--with my P10! (It's not always a frog thing.)
A little extra moisture just tells me I'm getting enough.
As long as it doesn't make my nose sore or mess with my sleep, it's all good.

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palerider
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by palerider » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:56 pm

Pugsy wrote: Picture your worst sinus infection you have ever had...the headache...the toothache...the pressure...the congestion....the drainage and how bad you felt...that's what can happen when the nasal mucosa get dried out for those of us whose nasal mucosa need or want the added moisture. Do you really want that to happen to someone you gave advice to?

Again...people who don't even use a humidifier at all...not attached...not even passover mode...have complained of rain out in all the types of masks.
What do you tell those people? Dry out their bedroom air more with a dehumidifier?
englandsf says he's just here to share his experience... as long as everybody does just exactly what he did, he's happy.

besides, physics doesn't care about patient comfort, just as him

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palerider
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by palerider » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:01 pm

englandsf wrote:Scaring folks into NEVER testing lower humidity is a disservice that an experience user like you, Pugsy, would surely want to avoid?

The value of this board is surely teaching folks how to try different options in an organized and measuring way - isn't it?
are you SERIOUS?

pugsy always presents a *BALANCED* answer, telling people the truth, that you are so blind to, that lower humidity works for some, and higher works for others.

you are the one with the one sided disservice!

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Pugsy
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Re: water drops in nasal pillow

Post by Pugsy » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:06 pm

englandsf wrote:Scaring folks into NEVER testing lower humidity is a disservice that an experience user like you, Pugsy, would surely want to avoid?
Go ahead. Do what you wish..say what you wish...don't explain all options instead of just the one you think fixes all problems and someone will come along behind you and say what you should have said.

It takes only a few extra key strokes to explain both sides of the equation and the possible outcomes.

I have personally been on the receiving end of advice (that I know was well intentioned) and it made me sick.

BTW.....I offer the lowering of humidity choices all the time with the usual YMMV speech and they need to find out which works for them. I don't go telling people to change it when they say they are happy with it.

Turning humidity down "a lot" to someone who has already said they like lots of humidity just to get rid of a little water in the mask is potentially harmful.
But go ahead...do what you wish and say what you wish and I won't be so nice from now on.

Oh, BTW I did cover the option for reducing the humidity coming in as a potential option for reducing the chance of rain out in the how to control the condensation posts in the bumps in the road thread which I linked to above.
So I did mention it. I just didn't say it was the holy grail and fixes all problems and never creates problems.

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