FFM Riding Up

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
BanStupidity
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FFM Riding Up

Post by BanStupidity » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:31 am

I've had a CPAP for 6 days so far. The FFM seems to creep up on me as I sleep. It fits well, I think, but it wants to move higher than it belongs. Is there a solution for anchoring the bottom of the mask so it doesn't ride up? The bottom straps of the mask only seem to hold it tight against my face, but do not seem to prevent up/down movement.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:23 pm

Please read the blog at the link below; most of the advice will work for any full face mask:
http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/taming ... e-quattro/

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Wulfman...

Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by Wulfman... » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:48 pm

BanStupidity wrote:I've had a CPAP for 6 days so far. The FFM seems to creep up on me as I sleep. It fits well, I think, but it wants to move higher than it belongs. Is there a solution for anchoring the bottom of the mask so it doesn't ride up? The bottom straps of the mask only seem to hold it tight against my face, but do not seem to prevent up/down movement.
I looked at your mask (following the link to CPAP-dot-COM) and can't figure out how it could possibly be creeping up. But, I don't actually have one, so I can't speak from personal experience.


Den

.

library lady
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by library lady » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:04 pm

When I first started CPAP on a medium Quattro Air mask, I felt like it was too big so I tried out a small and the first night on it I woke up around 3 AM and the bottom of the cushion was in my mouth! I went back to the medium. Then I learned about mask liners, and they solved two problems for me: the mask stayed in place without my having to jiggle it back into place all the time, and I no longer had the constant and loud leak noises I’d been having. I now use the AirFit10, as you do, and it uses the same cushion... like it so much better than the Air without that forehead arm and the strap around my head.

Those liners were a game changer for me! Karen at Pad-A-Cheek has nice ones, as well as strap covers, go here: http://www.padacheek.com. There are also RemZzzzs, which I use, which you can get at many DMEs, and online from our forum hosts at https://www.cpap.com.

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old dude
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by old dude » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:36 pm

I see that you use the AirFit F10, which uses the same cushion as the Quattro Air that I use so I'll chime in.

First, I've personally never seen the magic in mask liners at all; I don't quite see how a bit of cloth can help with leaks or a mask sliding around. And for me they were a PITA to put on, and then if you remove your mask to go to the bathroom you start all over again. But I recognize I'm in the minority here, so you might want to see if they help you. Remszzees will send you a free sample if you call them.

But more to the point, I had the exact same problem that LL describes. Out of some 12-14 FFMs I tried in less than a year this was the only one that did that. I called it "eating the mask".

I otherwise loved the Quattro Air, so here's what I did to abate the problem:

1. Make sure you have the correct size. These cushions run about a full size smaller than any other FFM I've tried, and this has been verified to me by ResMed. It's not just my opinion. So make sure your mask is large enough to give you enough real estate under your lower lip. Also be aware that this mask is designed to be worn lower on your nose that others. This will get the bottom of the cushion further away from your lower lip.

2. Your mask cushion must have traction against your face to stay in place. If you'll notice the silicone in the outer seal is semi-opaque, almost like frosted glass. It's unlike any other FFM cushion I've ever seen. This silicone has to stick to your face to stay stationary. So I make sure that I wash my cushion every day with warm water and baby shampoo to remove any trace of facial oils from the night before. Additionally, I wash my face with soap and warm water right before bed every night. This protocol has helped me more than anything else.

Good luck to you and keep trying!

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palerider
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by palerider » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:55 pm

old dude wrote:First, I've personally never seen the magic in mask liners at all; I don't quite see how a bit of cloth can help with leaks or a mask sliding around. And for me they were a PITA to put on, and then if you remove your mask to go to the bathroom you start all over again. But I recognize I'm in the minority here, so you might want to see if they help you.
perhaps I can help with the 'point'...
a thin layer of cloth, say like from a t-shirt, won't prevent leaks.

what it will do is muffle them, so instead of SQUEEEAL FART FART FART FART THHHHHHHHP!, you'll get more of a quiet sssshhhhhh , much less likely to wake up yourself, or your bedpartner.

also, they're typically somewhat absorbent, so they pick up facial sweat, and oils, and often feel better, to many people, than the silicone of the mask against the skin, especially after a few hours.

as with just about everything in the papping world, they're not for everybody, but for some, they're a miracle.

and the padacheek ones just strap on the mask, so there's no futzing with 'em, just slap the mask on
(so I've heard, haven't tried 'em myself)

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bwexler
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by bwexler » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:12 pm

I found if you clinch your teeth on the bottom of the mask it no longer slides around. Unfortunately that does not help with leaks or eye irritation.

My solution was the F&P 431 FFM which fits under your chin. It does not slide up. However mine is still prone to leaks. When I need a FFM due to congestion it is my best solution. If I can breathe through my nose current favorite is Wisp.

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M'ohms
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by M'ohms » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:25 pm

This is what I have done to prevent the mask from riding up:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... e46c40.jpg

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library lady
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by library lady » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:20 pm

palerider wrote:
old dude wrote:First, I've personally never seen the magic in mask liners at all; I don't quite see how a bit of cloth can help with leaks or a mask sliding around. And for me they were a PITA to put on, and then if you remove your mask to go to the bathroom you start all over again. But I recognize I'm in the minority here, so you might want to see if they help you.
perhaps I can help with the 'point'...
a thin layer of cloth, say like from a t-shirt, won't prevent leaks.

what it will do is muffle them, so instead of SQUEEEAL FART FART FART FART THHHHHHHHP!, you'll get more of a quiet sssshhhhhh , much less likely to wake up yourself, or your bedpartner.

also, they're typically somewhat absorbent, so they pick up facial sweat, and oils, and often feel better, to many people, than the silicone of the mask against the skin, especially after a few hours.



as with just about everything in the papping world, they're not for everybody, but for some, they're a miracle.

and the padacheek ones just strap on the mask, so there's no futzing with 'em, just slap the mask on
(so I've heard, haven't tried 'em myself)
I can add to this "point", palerider: Old Dude, when I get up in the night, I do not take my mask off, I just pull the hose connector off - why futz with the liner more than once? That's dumb! I agree liners are not for everybody, but for many people they work well, for any or all of the reasons offered by palerider. You tried it, it didn't work for you, but for several months now, my leak line in sleepyhead hardly ever goes above the red line, and the leaks I do have do not wake me up, and that is what makes liners worthwhile for me - I can sleep through the night 29 days out of 30 without waking up from a mask issue.

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JQLewis
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by JQLewis » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:01 pm

M'ohms wrote:This is what I have done to prevent the mask from riding up:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... e46c40.jpg
I've also had the experience of waking up with the bottom of my mask in my mouth. Not pleasant and certainly not good for the therapy. Your solution seems like a great idea. What strap is that you have under your chin?

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old dude
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by old dude » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:07 am

library lady wrote:
palerider wrote:
old dude wrote:First, I've personally never seen the magic in mask liners at all; I don't quite see how a bit of cloth can help with leaks or a mask sliding around. And for me they were a PITA to put on, and then if you remove your mask to go to the bathroom you start all over again. But I recognize I'm in the minority here, so you might want to see if they help you.
perhaps I can help with the 'point'...
a thin layer of cloth, say like from a t-shirt, won't prevent leaks.

what it will do is muffle them, so instead of SQUEEEAL FART FART FART FART THHHHHHHHP!, you'll get more of a quiet sssshhhhhh , much less likely to wake up yourself, or your bedpartner.

also, they're typically somewhat absorbent, so they pick up facial sweat, and oils, and often feel better, to many people, than the silicone of the mask against the skin, especially after a few hours.



as with just about everything in the papping world, they're not for everybody, but for some, they're a miracle.

and the padacheek ones just strap on the mask, so there's no futzing with 'em, just slap the mask on
(so I've heard, haven't tried 'em myself)
I can add to this "point", palerider: Old Dude, when I get up in the night, I do not take my mask off, I just pull the hose connector off - why futz with the liner more than once? That's dumb! I agree liners are not for everybody, but for many people they work well, for any or all of the reasons offered by palerider. You tried it, it didn't work for you, but for several months now, my leak line in sleepyhead hardly ever goes above the red line, and the leaks I do have do not wake me up, and that is what makes liners worthwhile for me - I can sleep through the night 29 days out of 30 without waking up from a mask issue.
As I said, I recognize that I am in the minority.

The reason I have to remove my mask is that when I wake up in the night I have to apply lubricating eye drops each time. When I tried doing that with the mask on, the drops would run down my face under the cushion and break the seal of the cushion to my face. Plus, I'm a little klutzy and don't want to risk tripping over a cat or something and breaking a hip. So, in my case anyway maybe not so dumb.

This just kinda points up the reality that while suggestions and experiences of others can surely be helpful, PAPing is often an individual journey and is unique to the individual user.

BanStupidity
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by BanStupidity » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:47 am

Thanks for the info. Now to try out some of these ideas.

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kjell
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by kjell » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:50 am

My Sleep doc she said when I asked about f10 and Quattro FX that you should not have a narrow face then it can slip up !

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Kennerly
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by Kennerly » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:13 am

Don't be shy about modifying the headgear. I use a Quattro fx ffm and to keep it from riding up I use a vertical length of tape along the back of my head to keep the head straps closer together, which shifts the direction of the "pull" more towards the rear than the top. I also add a chin strap that runs from the right upper strap down under my chin and then back up to the left upper strap. To experiment with various configrations you can use strips of tape and cut pieces of Ace bandage ( I like the self adhering kind).

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BanStupidity
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Re: FFM Riding Up

Post by BanStupidity » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:12 pm

My face is anything but narrow. I wear a 4XL motorcycle helmet, and even that is too small. I couldn't find bigger ones.

I plan to try the extra restraint on the straps to keep the mask from settling North to the bridge of my nose.