Longer lasting power for tent camping

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
raftergirl
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by raftergirl » Sat May 02, 2015 1:57 pm

I am very happy with my Qi-Infinity. I tried the PowerAdd Pilot and it didn't work. Probably a dud? I sent it back for a refund. Several folks have had good luck with it, but I wasn't sure, so I decided to try the Qi-Infinity instead of taking another chance on the PowerAdd Pilot. I initially checked into the C-100 battery pack. The information I got from BPS who makes them is that with my pressure settings of 14-16 I would get only 12 hours of power from one battery. The best price I could find for the C-100 was on Amazon @ $280. So $280 for only one night of power didn't make sense. The Qi-Infinity cost me $220, and I can easily get two nights of power, and almost three. I have used it at home for about a week with no issues at all. Plug it into my cpap and way we go. It's 3 lb. and fairly compact. I will use it on a two night kayaking trip next weekend and see how it goes in the outdoors. I have also ordered the solar panel charger that was mentioned in the other thread to see how fast I can boost the charge to get additional nights of power.

Up until now, I have used a 12V20A AGM deep cycle battery system with very good results. I used this system on several week long rafting trips last summer in Idaho. The last trip was in the fall with night temps. of mid 30s - low 40s. I had no issues. Each battery gives me 2-3 nights & weighs 13 lb. 4 batteries for an 8 night trip. If the solar recharge option pans out, that might help eliminate at least of couple of the heavier batteries for weeklong trips.

The key to using any battery to power your cpap is not using the humidifier/heater. They require extra power.

If you are base/car camping then you should have no problem with a decent Li Ion battery for 2-3 nights, as long as you can access power to recharge when needed. Good luck. I'm glad you are active in the great outdoors!

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ N10 For Her Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead software

User avatar
mralaska
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:45 am

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by mralaska » Sun May 03, 2015 5:17 am

I was looking at a very small battery powered travel cpap at Secondwind for ~359. Would something like that be a decent option? For a similar price of a larger li-on battery it might draw less power and enable using a smaller battery, and would be less trouble to lug when you have to be away from the car. Obviously you would not be able to review your data for those days but might be worth it for the advantages? Can anyone comment whether those mini-machines are reliable machines for basic CPAP functionality? I have never looked into or considered one but looking at it reminded me of this thread.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PRS1 760 (BiPap Auto set up as APAP)
Happily hosing since 4/19/2015
Do not believe a word I say until Pugsy or PaleRider has had a chance to review!

Cheers,
Paul

User avatar
raftergirl
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by raftergirl » Sun May 03, 2015 7:08 am

mralaska wrote:I was looking at a very small battery powered travel cpap at Secondwind for ~359. Would something like that be a decent option? For a similar price of a larger li-on battery it might draw less power and enable using a smaller battery, and would be less trouble to lug when you have to be away from the car. Obviously you would not be able to review your data for those days but might be worth it for the advantages? Can anyone comment whether those mini-machines are reliable machines for basic CPAP functionality? I have never looked into or considered one but looking at it reminded me of this thread.
The travel machines are slightly smaller and lighter than the traditional machines, but you still need to power them the same way. They need to be plugged in, or hooked up to a battery. Some of them have proprietary batteries that you can buy separately, but they are pricey & don't give any more power than any other 12V or Li Ion battery.

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ N10 For Her Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead software

User avatar
mralaska
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:45 am

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by mralaska » Sun May 03, 2015 7:43 am

raftergirl wrote:
mralaska wrote:I was looking at a very small battery powered travel cpap at Secondwind for ~359. Would something like that be a decent option? For a similar price of a larger li-on battery it might draw less power and enable using a smaller battery, and would be less trouble to lug when you have to be away from the car. Obviously you would not be able to review your data for those days but might be worth it for the advantages? Can anyone comment whether those mini-machines are reliable machines for basic CPAP functionality? I have never looked into or considered one but looking at it reminded me of this thread.
The travel machines are slightly smaller and lighter than the traditional machines, but you still need to power them the same way. They need to be plugged in, or hooked up to a battery. Some of them have proprietary batteries that you can buy separately, but they are pricey & don't give any more power than any other 12V or Li Ion battery.
I was in another room and saw the page still open on the ad so I clicked on the link and noticed it did have expensive options and did not list the power requirements. With the optional car adapter requiring a converter and the AC power adapter not listing the output voltage it looks like they are trying to steer you to their possibly proprietary battery supply which is probably not a bargain either. I came back to my logged in computer to rescind my question but I was already covered. Thank you!

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PRS1 760 (BiPap Auto set up as APAP)
Happily hosing since 4/19/2015
Do not believe a word I say until Pugsy or PaleRider has had a chance to review!

Cheers,
Paul

User avatar
raftergirl
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by raftergirl » Sun May 03, 2015 9:52 am

I found the Qi-Infinity because a person on a backpacking forum posted about it. He has the Transcend EZEX travel cpap and was using the Trancend Multi-night battery pack. He was only able to get 10 hours out of it, and went searching for an alternative.

If you order the PowerAdd Pilot and it works, then that's about the best price/weight bargain I've seen so far. Especially if you are a backpacker where every oz. counts in your pack. For car camping, paddling/rafting, or bike/moto packing the Qi-Infinity is a good option.

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ N10 For Her Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead software

lytepole
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by lytepole » Sat May 16, 2015 10:54 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
The 35 pounds would give you up to a week with no humidity. If you're camping in a very dry climate we can show you the settings to minimize power usage while still provideing some humidity so you can still get 2-3 days.
I've got some camping coming up and don't think I can survive without some humidity. I've got a ResMed S9 Autoset and currently use my humidifier and climate hose set on 5. What would you suggest for a battery as well as machine settings to get me through an 8 hour night? I've got a generator, so we can recharge each day if necessary, but my sensitive sinuses die without my humidity.

Also - I currently have my machine set on a range of like 8-12, but I'm wondering if I set it at a steady pressure how that affects the power usage?

I also saw someone mention these in another post: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/heat-m ... -unit.html. Has anyone tried low humidity settings + one of these?

Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions! Looking forward to getting out next weekend

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun May 17, 2015 4:38 am

lytepole wrote:
CapnLoki wrote:
The 35 pounds would give you up to a week with no humidity. If you're camping in a very dry climate we can show you the settings to minimize power usage while still provideing some humidity so you can still get 2-3 days.
I've got some camping coming up and don't think I can survive without some humidity. I've got a ResMed S9 Autoset and currently use my humidifier and climate hose set on 5. What would you suggest for a battery as well as machine settings to get me through an 8 hour night? I've got a generator, so we can recharge each day if necessary, but my sensitive sinuses die without my humidity.

Also - I currently have my machine set on a range of like 8-12, but I'm wondering if I set it at a steady pressure how that affects the power usage?

I also saw someone mention these in another post: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/heat-m ... -unit.html. Has anyone tried low humidity settings + one of these?

Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions! Looking forward to getting out next weekend
FIrst, I want to correct a mistake in my earlier post - the battery I reference is 24 pounds, and provides 35 Amp-hours. This type of battery suffers it you drain it too low, so you should think of 25 Amp-hours as the practical capacity.

This first issue is figuring out how much humidity you really need. If you camp in a warm, humid climate you might need little or none. I don't bother to bring the humidifier when I travel during the summer.

You may want to check out the results from a few weeks of testing various humidifier configurations:
viewtopic.php?t=102179
I don't know how to translate from Respironics to Resmed settings, but a few things stand out - First the heated hose is a powerhog, so try turning that off. You may need other another solution to prevent rainout, such as feeding the hose through your sleeping bag. Second, on Respironics, the newer version of humidity control, using a humidity sensor, is more effecient - I might guess the same is true for Resmed. Third, if you use an inverter (rather than the ResMed DC/DC converter) it is only 60% efficient, so you'll use almost twice the power. The DC/DC converter is worth the investment if this is more than a one night a year proposition.

My experiment show that by reducing the humidity to level 2 (of 5) and turning off the hose, my power usage went down to 8-9 Amp-hours a night, or less than half my normal home usage. This means I could get 3 nights from the battery I mentioned.

A few more points- You can always get a larger battery, or extras if you need more time. Also, if you plan to recharge during the day, get a charger that matches the battery siize. With a quality charger a deep cycle battery will accept about a quarter of its capacity in an hour, so a 35 Amp-hour could be used with a 9 Amp charger, while a 100 AH battery could use a 25 amp charger. The BatteryTender charger I recommend is still the best for keeping a battery topped off, but it takes a long to time to do its work. Also,the last 20% of a full charge can take long time, so only expect to get to 80% charged in an hour of so. The protocol for living "off-grid" is to have a battery bank about four times the daily use, so you can recharge from about 55% full to 80% in about an hour.

One approach is to simply get a large deep cycle battery. A traditional flooded deep cycle can be had for under $100 and provides about 100 Amp-hours. At 60 pounds it a pain to lug around, and you don't want to tip it over, but it would give you several days with humidity, and would accept a relatively quick charge. BTW, a car alternator will provide around 35 Amps if you rev it up a little bit (at idle the regulator might not "turn on"), so with a large battery you can recover a night's usage by jumping to the car battery, perhaps through the cigarette lighter, and driving around for an while.

I wouldn't guess it pays to modify the pressure settings; if you need increased pressure you should use it. The best way to keep the pump usage down is to get a good night's sleep so that it stays at the lowest setting.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

SewTired
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:33 am
Location: Minneapolis area

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by SewTired » Sun May 17, 2015 7:30 am

Lots of good (and funny) information here. I just wanted to add that I've seen mentioned in other places to hook up to a marine battery.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead
Diabetes 2, RLS & bradycardia
Airsense For Her; Settings: range 8-12, Airfit P10 (M)

lytepole
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by lytepole » Sun May 17, 2015 11:50 am

CapnLoki wrote: One approach is to simply get a large deep cycle battery. A traditional flooded deep cycle can be had for under $100 and provides about 100 Amp-hours. At 60 pounds it a pain to lug around, and you don't want to tip it over, but it would give you several days with humidity, and would accept a relatively quick charge. BTW, a car alternator will provide around 35 Amps if you rev it up a little bit (at idle the regulator might not "turn on"), so with a large battery you can recover a night's usage by jumping to the car battery, perhaps through the cigarette lighter, and driving around for an while.
Thanks so much for the info - I feel so clueless about this stuff!

We have a camping lot with no power that we plan to use regularly this summer, so I am looking for more than a one time solution.

I have purchased the $85 12V charging cord (https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html).

We have an extra one of these batteries at home right now which we bought last year for our trailer: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0324598142. Hubby says its a Group 27 battery (which I don't know what that means) I have no idea what it has in the way of Amp-hours though, so I'm hoping someone can help translate for me.

Is this something that would meet with the "large deep cycle battery" definition?

Also contemplating just biting the bullet for an AGM battery like this http://www.cabelas.com/product/Boating/ ... %3D1100564 Is this overkill?

I'm hoping to test this out at home this week before we head out and REALLY appreciate the help!!

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun May 17, 2015 3:41 pm

lytepole wrote: We have an extra one of these batteries at home right now which we bought last year for our trailer: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0324598142. Hubby says its a Group 27 battery (which I don't know what that means) I have no idea what it has in the way of Amp-hours though, so I'm hoping someone can help translate for me.

Is this something that would meet with the "large deep cycle battery" definition?
The "Group" refers to the physical size of the battery, so you know what size fits in your car. It also implies a weight and power, but there is some variation here. There are a small number of large manufacturers that dominate the market, so when you see a "house brand" like Cabela or Napa, they are probably all made in the same place.

The Napa would qualify as a cheap deep cycle, though I'd feel better if they gave specs beyond "moderate deep cycle use." Its probably somewhere around 100 Amp-hours. Other than the problem with tipping it over, it should work fine. You may want to get a box for it, about $15.
lytepole wrote: Also contemplating just biting the bullet for an AGM battery like this http://www.cabelas.com/product/Boating/ ... %3D1100564 Is this overkill?
This would have about the same power as the Napa, but being AGM, your don't have to worry about spills - it can even run up-side-down. This is handy if you have to pull it out of the car every weekend. You pay a premium for the Cabela name and you could easily find one this size on Amazon for $200. For example:
http://www.amazon.com/UB121100-Group-11 ... B00DDZEECO

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

lytepole
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by lytepole » Sun May 17, 2015 5:10 pm

Thanks for the help!

With time of the essence so I can test and know what I'm getting into before we leave this weekend, we bought what we could find today:

Battery - Sears AGM Group 31
http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-m ... ockType=G1

Charger - Sears

http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-1 ... ockType=G9

I'm going to test at home with my regular settings and will report back on performance.

GeoffD
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:46 am
Location: New England

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by GeoffD » Sun May 17, 2015 9:43 pm

lytepole wrote:Thanks for the help!

With time of the essence so I can test and know what I'm getting into before we leave this weekend, we bought what we could find today:

Battery - Sears AGM Group 31
http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-m ... ockType=G1

Charger - Sears

http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-1 ... ockType=G9

I'm going to test at home with my regular settings and will report back on performance.
Personally, I would have bought three 35 amp-hour AGM wheelchair/scooter batteries and hooked them up in parallel. Those weight 25 pounds and can be had online for $60-something each with free shipping. That Sears marine battery would suck to try to move around.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed S9 AutoSet as spare machine

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by CapnLoki » Mon May 18, 2015 6:43 am

lytepole wrote:With time of the essence so I can test and know what I'm getting into before we leave this weekend, we bought what we could find today:
Battery - Sears AGM Group 31
http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-m ... ockType=G1
Charger - Sears
http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-1 ... ockType=G9
You pay a premium for instant gratification, but this gear will certain do the job. Use it in good health!

GeoffD wrote:Personally, I would have bought three 35 amp-hour AGM wheelchair/scooter batteries and hooked them up in parallel. Those weight 25 pounds and can be had online for $60-something each with free shipping. That Sears marine battery would suck to try to move around.
If there was a chance that the batteries would be used individually this would certainly be a good strategy. And if the daily use was low, than this would allow one small battery to be pulled out every few days. But this poster wanted to use full humidity which would tax a single small battery, so it would be best to have the largest bank. It becomes a tossup as to whether its easier to deal with one large battery or three small ones cabled together. I do see a small luggage cart in her future.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

User avatar
stripboat99
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:28 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by stripboat99 » Tue May 26, 2015 5:02 pm

Thanks to the information in this thread, I picked up the same Q-Infinity battery that raftergirl had success with and guess what, it worked well for me too. Three full nights on my S9 set at 11, and still some charge left. Thank you! Much lighter to haul around than a motorcycle battery!

_________________
MaskHumidifier

User avatar
Krelvin
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Metro Phx Area - Dry Heat!

Re: Longer lasting power for tent camping

Post by Krelvin » Tue May 26, 2015 5:37 pm

Thats good to hear.
Current Settings PS 4.0 over 10.6-18.0 (cmH2O) - Resmed S9 VPAP Auto w/h5i Humidifier - Quattro Air FFM
TNET Sleep Resource Pages - CPAP Machine Database
Put your equip in your Signature - SleepyHead v1.0.0-beta-1
Kevin... alias Krelvin