Mouth Leak, Mouth Dryness, Taped Lips, Still Dry, Confused!

I have a respironics autopap and use a nasal pillow. I experience pretty severe mouth leak, which leaves my mouth dry and leaves me feeling tired in the morning - like I haven't slept at all. My doctor says the same thing: my machine shows lots of pauses in breathing while I have mouth leak, about half the night. I've tried a home made and two professional chin straps - they come off when I toss and turn. I also just ordered a mouth piece to try that.

So I get on this board and read the wiki and some posts, and I tried mouth taping last night. Just slapped some micropore tape on my lips and it stuck well.

So I was pretty confused when I woke up - just like I normally do, in the night several times - with a completely dry mouth! The tape was secure, and it does leak a LITTLE because of the pores but not enough to breathe through normally. There was water in my humidifier, although the heat is not on (I can't stand it hot). So what gives with the dry mouth? What should I try next? I can't be mouth leaking - or can I - through the pores?

While I was falling asleep, I did notice some gas going into my stomach, and uh... I'm pretty gassy today. Could it be going through my mouth and right into my belly?

What should I try next? Waking up with a completely dry mouth over and over (like half a dozen times) per night really sucks, and I'm not getting restful sleep. What do I do?

I've already tried a full face mask - it has to be extremely tight to make a seal, and it is really uncomfortable :/

This is really bugging me, because I have a pacemaker - apnea causes my heart to pause for up to 10 seconds, making the pacemaker kick in. I'd like this not to happen, and I'd like good sleep!

A FFM does not need to be 'extremely tight', it just needs to be the right one for you in the right size and fitted properly.

Are you taking any meds that might be drying?

The FFM had to be tight or it leaked badly. I have a beard. I could shave it, but I'd rather not. It was a comfort gel full face mask. What else could I try?

No, the dry-mouth is definitely air, not medicine. I don't get it during the day. Could the tape be leaking that much?

Some people use Orajel for Dry Mouth. Search Amazon for it.

There are other FFms that can be tried without tightening that much... have you looked at the Forma? Worked for someone I know with a beard.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into them. I do use a nasal gel, it helps a bit with dryness and seal. I will try the mask you suggest if I can't make other things work.

I got a mouthpiece from Amazon, one that form fits after you put it in boiling water, and it worked for the first part of the night! It was only $15. I did spit it out after a few hours, but I think there's potential here.

Posting, in case it helps someone else (not a spammer): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D3L ... UTF8&psc=1

I've been using the partial taping solution for over a year now, with great results; I'll post below, thought it sounds like you've already tried it.

Early on I do remember, even with the tape, having a dry mouth night or two (at least I think; it may have been with a chin strap). But I do believe the technique that is described elsewhere on this forum -- involving the relaxed placement of the tongue against the roof of the mouth while you sleep -- really helps close off the system, so to speak, and prevent dry mouth as you breath just through the nostrils. I've been surprised that the technique works and find myself now placing my tongue that way even during the day when I'm not thinking about it. Maybe something wortht trying?

Good luck!

***********************

I have the same problem, and tried different types of masks and also chin straps. I've found a partial taping/full face mask (FFM) solution that works really well for me:

For my FFM (full face mask) use I found it started working a whole lot better when I started using tape. For me, the "partial tape method" solves most of the issues with "mouth breathing" and "draw drop," which interrrupts the seal of a FFM (full face mask) because my face changes shape when that occurs and the seal is broken. It's not for everyone, but here's what I'd suggest:

Some people end up using chin straps with FFM's. I tried and disliked chin straps. I have now been using surgical tape for about a year now, and it has worked wonders and works very well for me. I use silk surgical type tape you can get off of Amazon, 2" wide. There's also a 1" wide version. If you gently pull it off in the morning, there's usually no problem. Just type something like "3M-Durapore-Silk-Tape 2 inches x 10 yards - box of 6" or the like on the Amazon site. For me, it works very well with a full face mask (FFM) -- the FFM helps prevent pressure problems if my jaw does open slightly, and the tape substantially prevents my jaw from dropping and also thereby keeps my face largely in the same "position" as I fall asleep (thereby avoiding the inevitable leaks that can occur when your facial shape changes from the point of initial placement/tightening of the mask). .

I was actually worried about not being able to breath with the tape if there was a shut-down. I've found that this set-up, however, offers very few worries:

For the silk tape, apply a 2inch wide strip vertically from a spot just above your upper lip (the indentation just below your nose) down to just under your chin (with your lips closed and your jaw in a comfortable place). As you bring the tape and press it underneath your chin, "fold" the edge back on itself (maybe a 1/2 inch or so) so that the edge hangs a bit from your chin -- makes for easier removal in case of emergency. Because it's only 2 inches wide and vertically placed, your entire mouth is actually not taped -- you can, in a pinch, breath around the edges -- and the silk tape itself I've found by accident (in opening my mouth with it being placed) will also let a little air in if you open your mouth forcefully. In short, it doesn't take too much force to maneuver or breath around the silk tape, but at the same time the tape seems to mostly keep my jaw from dropping when I relax and fall asleep, which is the whole point. [The setup also seems to work best when combined with the technique, described elsewhere on this site, of learning to relax with the tip of your tongue against the roof of your mouth as your mouth is closed, which "seals" the mouth from the nasal passage and helps prevent dry mouth]. (In placing the tape, I've also found it helpful to focus on firming the contact with the skin at the point below the nose and under the chin more than the lips, which seems to leave a little area of the lip region feeling less taped, if that makes sense). [To remove with less "tear", try pulling up vertically from underneath the chin till you reach your lip, then pull across "horizontally" for the remainder.]

The usual caveats about making up your own mind about this, considering safety issues, etc. apply, of course. But frankly, I'm surprised more people don't do this.

CardiacProtest wrote:This is really bugging me, because I have a pacemaker - apnea causes my heart to pause for up to 10 seconds, making the pacemaker kick in. I'd like this not to happen, and I'd like good sleep!

I know this is from January, but Apnea making a heart pause for 10 seconds? I assume that's in bed at night given the context. Noctornal asystole (aka 'flatline') associated with apnea is much more interesting than mask leaks! I understand that sleep disordered breathing can cause various dysrhythmias, and the damage caused to the heart by the apnea symptoms can lead to heart disease. And asystole is very problematic of itself, regardless of the cause.

But 10 seconds of asystole is a pretty specific thing and can have multiple causes. No doubt sleep apnea can coexist with other causes of asystole. But it'd be very interesting to hear more about what it is that indicates the OP, or anyone else, has symptoms of the heart rate dropping to the extent a pacemaker is identified as being needed AND of sleep apnea. Also how the need for a pacemaker was identified and if the pacing seems to help the apnea symptoms.

This is, I think, an underinvestingated aspect of sleep disordered breathing, any relationship between disorders causing the heart rate to drop and apnea symptoms.

(Disclosure: I used to have enough hypopneas to need CPAP, but when 10.4 seconds of asystole was recorded at 3am one morning by an implanted device, I was given a pacemaker. The hypopneas and the dreadful tiredness I had both disappeared immediately. Hence my interest.)