hypothetical question

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StephenR
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hypothetical question

Post by StephenR » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:08 pm

Has anyone ever heard of sleeping medication reducing Clear Airway events?

The reason I ask is that I have noticed that on this my 2nd go round with CPAP, as usual I get CA's, no one knows yet what they are, still waiting for titration. Anyway, I was so tired the last few nights that I took 1.5 Zopiclone tablets that would be around 10.25mg. I sleep really well, and my AHI fell from around the late teens to under 5.

I have not been a good sleeper most of my life, early trauma etc, so I am wondering if the insomnia is part of the issue with what the machine thinks are CA's. So in effect the air blowing in to my throat is an alarm...

I know this may sound crazy, but heck its the best I could do this morning...

Stephen
Last edited by StephenR on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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palerider
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Re: theorectical question

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:27 pm

StephenR wrote:I know this may sound crazy, but heck its the best I could do this morning...
oh, this isn't even in the remote neighborhood of crazy.

now, whether there's merit in the theory, that I don't know

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StephenR
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Re: theorectical question

Post by StephenR » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:31 pm

palerider wrote:
StephenR wrote:I know this may sound crazy, but heck its the best I could do this morning...
oh, this isn't even in the remote neighborhood of crazy.

now, whether there's merit in the theory, that I don't know
thanks for that....

Stephen

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:33 pm

Any drug, including alcohol, taken to excess, can reduce the number of events, simply by suppressing breathing.
IMHO, not a good idea.

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by StephenR » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:19 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Any drug, including alcohol, taken to excess, can reduce the number of events, simply by suppressing breathing.
IMHO, not a good idea.
Oh boy...

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:06 pm

StephenR wrote:Has anyone ever heard of sleeping medication reducing Clear Airway events?
From emedicine.com's Central sleep apnea pages is this note:
Emedicine wrote:Sedative hypnotics: These agents have been used successfully in treating nonhypercapnic central sleep apnea. Temazepam and zolpidem have been shown to be effective under these circumstances and are believed to work by consolidating the sleep pattern, thus minimizing the instability in ventilation induced by sleep-wake transitions. A case series showed zolpidem reduced central apneas, and the overall apnea-hypopnea index, without worsening obstructive events.[41]

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by Papit » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:39 pm

Interesting and credible. Thanks. Of course, this should be done under your sleep doc's guidance and with his prescription.
robysue wrote:
StephenR wrote:Has anyone ever heard of sleeping medication reducing Clear Airway events?
From emedicine.com's Central sleep apnea pages is this note:
Emedicine wrote:Sedative hypnotics: These agents have been used successfully in treating nonhypercapnic central sleep apnea. Temazepam and zolpidem have been shown to be effective under these circumstances and are believed to work by consolidating the sleep pattern, thus minimizing the instability in ventilation induced by sleep-wake transitions. A case series showed zolpidem reduced central apneas, and the overall apnea-hypopnea index, without worsening obstructive events.[41]

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by StephenR » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:43 pm

thanks Robysue..

doesn't sound like anything a person would want to take long term...

Stephen

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by tedburnsIII » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:19 pm

I read that Zopiclone is not commercially available in the U.S., and the closest thing that comes to it would be Lunesta here.

Not recommended to take Zopiclone for more than a week.

Zolpidem (Ambien) may be a bit safer and possibly less addictive, though it is considered addictive if you take it frequently for a long time.

Caveat: I ain't no doctor or pharmacist.

Later: That is the last time I rely on wikipedia for anything. It may be commercially available in U.S.- really don't know. But the wiki said it was not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopiclone

Later yet: In any event, you are in Vancouver, where it is commercially available. There may be a good reason it is not available in U.S., then again- perhaps not.

Later yet yet: See about starter of 25mg hydroxyzine in lieu of above. Deemed safer and apparently non-addictive. Speak to your doc about it. It does have a long half-life, and when taken by me, I take it late afternoon, early evening.
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Re: hypothetical question

Post by Pugsy » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:19 pm

tedburnsIII wrote: That is the last time I rely on wikipedia for anything. It may be commercially available in U.S.- really don't know. But the wiki said it was not:
OP is in Canada and not the US so it's probably available in Canada.
They do things differently in Canada about lots of things.

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:15 pm

Papit wrote:Interesting and credible. Thanks. Of course, this should be done under your sleep doc's guidance and with his prescription.
robysue wrote:
StephenR wrote:Has anyone ever heard of sleeping medication reducing Clear Airway events?
From emedicine.com's Central sleep apnea pages is this note:
Emedicine wrote:Sedative hypnotics: These agents have been used successfully in treating nonhypercapnic central sleep apnea. Temazepam and zolpidem have been shown to be effective under these circumstances and are believed to work by consolidating the sleep pattern, thus minimizing the instability in ventilation induced by sleep-wake transitions. A case series showed zolpidem reduced central apneas, and the overall apnea-hypopnea index, without worsening obstructive events.[41]
Papit, I agree 100%: This is something that should only be done under your sleep doc's guidance and with his prescription.

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:20 pm

StephenR wrote:thanks Robysue..

doesn't sound like anything a person would want to take long term...

Stephen
I think that really depends on what the sleep doc who is guiding and prescribing the therapy really has in mind. I can see circumstances where taking something like Ambien long term under the guidance of a knowledgeable sleep doctor might indeed be a working strategy for fixing a particular sleep related problem, possibly including some very special forms of central sleep apnea that are highly correlated to sleep transitional central apneas occurring because of bad sleep in the form of really nasty sleep architecture.

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StephenR
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Re: hypothetical question

Post by StephenR » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:14 pm

This is why I asked this question:

Friday night on Zopiclone...

[img][IMG]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/s ... 6ryb42.jpg[/img][/img]

Sunday night, no Zopiclone...
[img][IMG]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/s ... p7quul.jpg[/img][/img]

I am thinking I have "really bad sleep architecture"...thanks for that Robysue...

Also found this from a sleep doc in Calgary, AB

http://www.ab.lung.ca/sitewyze/files/Co ... somnia.pdf

Stephen

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by robysue » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:33 pm

StephenR,

If those graphs are typical of the difference between what happens when you are Zopiclone and when you are not on Zopiclone, I'd be inclined to take the Zopiclone every night if my sleep doc supported the idea.

It's not a crazy idea that if you have real problems with sleep transitional events and something like Zopiclone helps you makd that transition to sleep in a smoother, quicker fashion, then it's going to help the overall AHI.

Also thanks for this link: http://www.ab.lung.ca/sitewyze/files/Co ... somnia.pdf I'll read it later, but it does look very interesting to me.

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Re: hypothetical question

Post by StephenR » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:59 am

Hi there..

yes its pretty much typical of what happens,,
Last night I only took 1/2 of a Zopiclone, had an AHI of 8.5. So even a little helps a lot. I did not really accept
that the sleep problems I have had most of my life: nightmares, insomnia...could effect my sleep quality.
What drove this home to me is a book I am reading for the second time: Sound Sleep, Sound Mind. For me it
has made me really look a the link between how I feel and how I sleep. Its an interesting journey...lol

The doc that wrote the pdf on cpap and insomnia is one of only a few in Canada that have what I would like in a sleep doc, unfortunately she lives 500 miles away...

She has another pdf on insomnia:
http://www.ab.lung.ca/sitewyze/files/Be ... somnia.pdf

Off to get an Oximeter from the DME, they want to see my oxygen levels...

all the best,

Stephen