New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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crnolen
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New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by crnolen » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:54 pm

I'm new to CPAP, well actually using a ResMed Airsense 110 Autoset for not quite a month, but I've been struggling with mask leaks like crazy with my F10 Face Mask, which is my third mask after starting with a Quattro and also trying a F&P 431. I started with FFM because my sleep tech said that I am quite the mouth breather and should use one.

However, since starting with a FFM, I have not had the success with managing the leaks that I want. Every night, I run the mask fit before I fall asleep and it always shows me the smiley face. I try to move around and try to make it a frowny face before I fall asleep, to no avail. Nevertheless, when I wake in the morning, I always have the frowny face and Sleepyhead shows LL like crazy and have really only had two nights over the past month where I've been under the leak threshold, on average.

I know I have a bit of a problem with mouth drop, so I've started using a ruby style chin strap, but that hasn't eliminated my leaks. (This is also why I got the F&P 431 but that didn't seal well on my cheeks, etc). I think part of my problem is that my resting face and my waking face have different levels of tension, therefore results in the leaks with all three of my FFM.

Tonight, I'm trying to switch to the P10 Mask, while wearing my chin strap to control the chin/mouth drop and my resulting mouth-breathing. I just fitted my mask and tried it for a few minutes, after running mask fit to determine if I chose the right size pillows, etc. I'm anticipating that I will still have some chin drop, even with the chin strap, but conceptually that should wake me up because it's pretty disturbing at my pressure (14-20) to have that much pressure running through my mouth. I'm hoping that I can train myself to keep my mouth completely shut overnight because even with the chin strap i know my mouth pops open a bit.

I don't know if others have resorted to switching to Pillows, with a chin strap, when they've been told to use a FFM. Any advice would be appreciated and I'll be sure to update you on my progress after I sleep tonight.
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.

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LSAT
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by LSAT » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:18 pm

crnolen wrote:I'm new to CPAP, well actually using a ResMed Airsense 110 Autoset for not quite a month, but I've been struggling with mask leaks like crazy with my F10 Face Mask, which is my third mask after starting with a Quattro and also trying a F&P 431. I started with FFM because my sleep tech said that I am quite the mouth breather and should use one.

However, since starting with a FFM, I have not had the success with managing the leaks that I want. Every night, I run the mask fit before I fall asleep and it always shows me the smiley face. I try to move around and try to make it a frowny face before I fall asleep, to no avail. Nevertheless, when I wake in the morning, I always have the frowny face and Sleepyhead shows LL like crazy and have really only had two nights over the past month where I've been under the leak threshold, on average.

I know I have a bit of a problem with mouth drop, so I've started using a ruby style chin strap, but that hasn't eliminated my leaks. (This is also why I got the F&P 431 but that didn't seal well on my cheeks, etc). I think part of my problem is that my resting face and my waking face have different levels of tension, therefore results in the leaks with all three of my FFM.

Tonight, I'm trying to switch to the P10 Mask, while wearing my chin strap to control the chin/mouth drop and my resulting mouth-breathing. I just fitted my mask and tried it for a few minutes, after running mask fit to determine if I chose the right size pillows, etc. I'm anticipating that I will still have some chin drop, even with the chin strap, but conceptually that should wake me up because it's pretty disturbing at my pressure (14-20) to have that much pressure running through my mouth. I'm hoping that I can train myself to keep my mouth completely shut overnight because even with the chin strap i know my mouth pops open a bit.

I don't know if others have resorted to switching to Pillows, with a chin strap, when they've been told to use a FFM. Any advice would be appreciated and I'll be sure to update you on my progress after I sleep tonight.
Are the leaks bad enough to wake you up or are you just using the frown y face to determine your leak level? Are you using Sleepyhead so we can see the level of leak? All masks allow for a certain level of leak.

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Nick Danger
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Nick Danger » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:24 pm

I use the P10 pillows with a chin strap. The chin strap seems to control my leaks well --- 95th percentile leak is usually in the "9" range.

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VictorC
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by VictorC » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:41 pm

I started out with the F10, and quickly moved to the P10 as well. My jaw drops quite easily when I fall asleep, and wear a chin strap to help control that. The chin strap does not prevent my mouth from opening, and some nights I do get larger (but not flagged as large) leaks. However most nights my leaks are controlled well enough to be at or under 5 L/m max. I can tell you I have found the P10 with chin strap combination to be a real treat. After my nares adjusted to the mask, and the soreness faded, I have found the mask to be really comfortable. Some mornings I will lie awake dozing, and I won't even feel the mask on my face. I and my wife also like that the P10 is much quieter than the F10. The only issue I have with the mask, and it is a really minor issue is that the short tube which connects to the hose causes me to do a little more hose wrangling at night. But that is very minor.

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crnolen
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by crnolen » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:27 pm

Here's my leak data from last night:

Image

I look at the smiley, then pull the data every few days. I have had a bit of air blowing in the morning that wakes me up, but I'm a ridiculously deep sleeper.
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:34 pm

Using nasal pillows should be a snap... the only caveat is that you don't end up breathing thru your mouth very much. That's usually the deal breaker (Pugsy is the exception!) Good luck and I hope it works out.

PS... I like the ResMed F10 Airfit FFM quite a bit and have enjoyed really good performance from it.

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I like my ResMed AirFit F10 FFM - reasonably low leaks for my ASV therapy. I'm currently using a PR S1 AutoSV 960P Advanced. I also keep a ResMed S9 Adapt as backup. I use a heated Hibernite hose. Still rockin' with Win 7 by using GWX to stop Win 10.

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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Nyre » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Welcome to the board Crnolen. I hope your search for the right mask comes easily for you.

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Pugsy
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Pugsy » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:53 pm

Your leak from last night was bigger than I would let slide for the amount of time shown.

When you start seeing prolonged periods of time over 30 L/min that AHI could be hiding some events because the machine missed even knowing they were there.
The green unknown apneas are showing up during some big leak...the machine knows something is going on but doesn't know what to call it...that's what happens in big leak and then in even bigger leak the machine doesn't know if something is happening or not.

Let's see what tonight shows with the P10 nasal pillows and chin strap. It would be hard to imagine it being worse than the above leak graph.

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Logies101
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Logies101 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:22 pm

If the chin strap isn't doing it you might want to try these

http://www.drugstore.com/chin-up-strip- ... 0/qxp78114

here's a video on how to apply them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy96tt480pE

They are the only thing that worked for me and you can use them more than once, just carefully remove and restick them to the paper, should be good for two, maybe three nights.

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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Wulfman... » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:50 pm

Maybe it's the bed pillow that needs to be changed.


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crnolen
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by crnolen » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:49 am

So, the switch to the P10 went about as I expected. I'd call it a pretty good success, but it will take some getting used to. My AHI last night was 6.96, which is not making me particularly happy. However, the leaks were significantly reduced and I simply need to avoid opening my mouth or otherwise fiddling with my mask. By the way, I did make the switch to a Zen Chi Buckwheat Pillow.

Image

Any other advice on how to reduce my AHI would be much appreciated. [BTW my EPR is set at 3 and Ramp is Auto with begin at 9.0]
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.

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Pugsy
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Pugsy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:55 am

What was the event category breakdown for last night? What was each even index separately.
How much was central?
If the AHI is pretty much all CA/central not anything you can do about them.
Might be interesting to see those graphs....on the right along with the AHI stuff on on the left. You can turn off the pie chart.

On the right...these graphs...Events, flow rate, pressure and leak ...don't need anything else at this time.

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crnolen
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by crnolen » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:13 am

Here you go Pugsy... thanks for the help [No CA, btw]

Image
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.

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Pugsy
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by Pugsy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:32 am

Looks like there are parts of the night where the pressure isn't sufficient to hold the airway open optimally. The 2 usual suspects for times like this are supine sleeping or REM stage sleep or maybe a little of both.
Your pressure wants to go up to near the max and seems to want to stay there for the most part. More minimum pressure might help but it looks like once your pressure gets up to around 15 it doesn't really ever go much below 15 so you would need to look at the clusters real close to get an idea at what pressure you were already at when those clusters went ahead and happened.

You are using EPR which lowers the pressure during exhale but your pressures are so high that you may not want to give up that relief in this pressure range because you are in bilevel machine need pressure range. Using EPR makes your machine sort of function like a bilevel device using pressure support of 3. It might not be much fun to reduce EPR.

If you know that you sometimes sleep on your back and can comfortably stay off your side you might see a reduction in pressure needs...and that might be one thing to look at because sometimes pressure needs can be significantly lower when on our sides.
If it is REM stage sleep...not much we can do because we can't control REM.

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
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I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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crnolen
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Re: New to CPAP and Switching from FFM to Pillows

Post by crnolen » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:50 am

So to be clear, I should try sleeping on my side more and if that doesn't work, maybe explore Bilevel?
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.