New solution for Dry Mouth?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:46 pm

yaconsult wrote:Would you please post the tips? I just ordered one to try and I suspect we're not the only two interested in the subject.
Why do you find it's better molded to the lower teeth?
I like to mold the teeth guard to my lower teeth because I sleep with my head raised and gravity helps keep the guard in place. Also it just seems more natural to me. The other reason, which I mentioned before, is that when facing down the teeth guard's rim provides a little ledge that helps keep my FFM from riding up. It's hard to picture but once it's in your mouth it'll become apparent.

For most mouths the upper set of teeth is wider and reaches further back (so they fit over the lower teeth) and therefore the Doctor's teeth guard is designed somewhat bigger to fit the upper teeth. I find that if you use a sharp razor knife you can trim off (before molding) both back ends by about a 3/16s of an inch. Just slice them right off... it's take some effort and be sure to do it on a wood or plastic cutting board because the last half of the cut can be sudden. They'll be some rough edges but don't worry about it since the boiling hot water you immerse it in will round everything off very nicely.

Once the cuts are done, put it in your mouth and note how it fits or if it jabs the back part of your jaw - cut more off the ends but only a little at a time until you get it feeling comfortable in your mouth. Next follow the instructions on the package for boiling and fitting. While the teeth guard is still semi-soft from boiling, I like to open my mouth after initially clamping down and squeeze the all the sides of the silicone of the teeth guard back in a bit and then bite down at about half intensity one final time. I discovered that the teeth guard tends to flatten too much if you just crank down on it and leave it to solidify like that. The package sez you can redo the boiling water step one more final time - I've done that and found that it works. Even a third time provides reasonable results.

Other than that, I put it in a soapy solution to soak for an hour every morning then soak it in plain tap water for awhile to rinse it... if you do it right it should NEVER smell or taste funny. Good luck and let me know how it works. Final note: it may take a day or two, or even a week to get used to the feel but once you do the device is really neat. I buy them on Amazon and they are anywhere from half to three-quarters the price that drug stores charge.

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CPAPIST
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by CPAPIST » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:47 am

NateS wrote:New solution for Dry Mouth?
Did you ever try this - http://www.amazon.com/XyliMelts-Mouth-M ... h+solution ?
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NateS
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by NateS » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:14 am

CPAPIST wrote:
NateS wrote:New solution for Dry Mouth?
Did you ever try this - http://www.amazon.com/XyliMelts-Mouth-M ... h+solution ?
I appreciate your suggestion. Thank you.

I do have a box of these in my nightstand drawer. Tried them over many nights some months ago, but unfortunately for me they just kept creating a sticky, gooey, stringy mess that refused to stay adhered and would end up ultimately swallowed during sleep.

I could try them again.

Regards, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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CPAPIST
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by CPAPIST » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:38 am

NateS wrote:I appreciate your suggestion. Thank you.
It wasn't a suggestion. It was just a question. I have never seen this product. But thanks for the answer.
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strigiformes
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by strigiformes » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:25 pm

How about a double mouthguard? Higher pressures commonly make me open my mouth, resulting in extreme dryness, and the mouthguard completely solves that problem for me.

**I can keep my mouth closed and tongue in place (for the most part) against pressures under 13-ish, so I've temporarily lowered my max to 13 while I wait for my auto bilevel machine to arrive and am not currently using the guard, but when I was letting the machine go where it wants to go, it was the only thing that worked well for me. I'm hoping bilevel will let me use the higher pressures without the aerophagia and mouth-breathing, but if not, the mouthguard will be my BFF again (well, my other BFF).** Image

Anyway, this is the one I like best:

http://www.amazon.com/Grinding-Mouth-Gu ... B00D3LKWNI

It's big (for me), but soft and comfortable. It's all moldable material - i.e. it doesn't have that unmoldable plastic divider plate (the technical term is "thingy", I believe) that a lot of single and double guards have, which can interfere with getting them fitted well (in my experience). I blocked the breathing hole while molding it by leaving out the stick that's supposed to be inserted to keep it open when you boil it, and by pressing/molding all around the hole during fitting to make sure it was completely blocked. I tilted my head back and tried to keep my jaw relaxed and in a comfortable (but "proper") alignment while fitting it. Lying down to fit would probably be even better. My lower jaw can't drop completely out of it while sleeping; I have to consciously open my mouth wide to insert/remove it. It doesn't hold the jaw forward like an oral appliance would, but it doesn't allow the jaw to drop back, either, which is a definite plus. Even when my lower jaw relaxes slightly out of the lower tooth "pocket" and my lips part, there's still more than enough material there to keep things in good alignment and block airflow out of the mouth. It's very much worth a try for anyone having issues with mouth-breathing, imo.


ETA: Having re-read your initial post and the bit about taping making you panic, I suppose this might not be right for you (sorry!). There's no mouth-breathing possible through a double-mouthguard modified in this way, so you'd have to work past that to use it. The sensation is different from taping, though, so there's no harm in trying it (and maybe the double-guard suggestion will help someone else). It doesn't feel the same as having something foreign covering your mouth from the outside, which might subconsciously contribute to the anxiety. Leaving the breathing hole open (or partially open) might also be something to try - it might at least reduce the sheer volume of air that rushes out through the mouth and/or help retain some moisture during mouth-breathing...I dunno there. Like Sir NoddinOff, I also find that having something (anything) in the mouth increases moisture by increasing salivation, so there's that.

I know I will wake up and simply remove the guard if for some reason my machine stops working, and I know I can still breathe through my nose with the mask on and the machine turned off, so this method doesn't bother me, but I can understand how having the mouth completely blocked might stress some folks out.

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NateS
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by NateS » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:19 pm

strigiformes wrote:How about a double mouthguard? Higher pressures commonly make me open my mouth, resulting in extreme dryness, and the mouthguard completely solves that problem for me.

**I can keep my mouth closed and tongue in place (for the most part) against pressures under 13-ish, so I've temporarily lowered my max to 13 while I wait for my auto bilevel machine to arrive and am not currently using the guard, but when I was letting the machine go where it wants to go, it was the only thing that worked well for me. I'm hoping bilevel will let me use the higher pressures without the aerophagia and mouth-breathing, but if not, the mouthguard will be my BFF again (well, my other BFF).** Image

Anyway, this is the one I like best:

http://www.amazon.com/Grinding-Mouth-Gu ... B00D3LKWNI

It's big (for me), but soft and comfortable. It's all moldable material - i.e. it doesn't have that unmoldable plastic divider plate (the technical term is "thingy", I believe) that a lot of single and double guards have, which can interfere with getting them fitted well (in my experience). I blocked the breathing hole while molding it by leaving out the stick that's supposed to be inserted to keep it open when you boil it, and by pressing/molding all around the hole during fitting to make sure it was completely blocked. I tilted my head back and tried to keep my jaw relaxed and in a comfortable (but "proper") alignment while fitting it. Lying down to fit would probably be even better. My lower jaw can't drop completely out of it while sleeping; I have to consciously open my mouth wide to insert/remove it. It doesn't hold the jaw forward like an oral appliance would, but it doesn't allow the jaw to drop back, either, which is a definite plus. Even when my lower jaw relaxes slightly out of the lower tooth "pocket" and my lips part, there's still more than enough material there to keep things in good alignment and block airflow out of the mouth. It's very much worth a try for anyone having issues with mouth-breathing, imo.


ETA: Having re-read your initial post and the bit about taping making you panic, I suppose this might not be right for you (sorry!). There's no mouth-breathing possible through a double-mouthguard modified in this way, so you'd have to work past that to use it. The sensation is different from taping, though, so there's no harm in trying it (and maybe the double-guard suggestion will help someone else). It doesn't feel the same as having something foreign covering your mouth from the outside, which might subconsciously contribute to the anxiety. Leaving the breathing hole open (or partially open) might also be something to try - it might at least reduce the sheer volume of air that rushes out through the mouth and/or help retain some moisture during mouth-breathing...I dunno there. Like Sir NoddinOff, I also find that having something (anything) in the mouth increases moisture by increasing salivation, so there's that.

I know I will wake up and simply remove the guard if for some reason my machine stops working, and I know I can still breathe through my nose with the mask on and the machine turned off, so this method doesn't bother me, but I can understand how having the mouth completely blocked might stress some folks out.
This sounds very intriguing. A couple follow-up questions:

1) You said: "Anyway, this is the one I like best" Did you try other similar guards before this one? If so, do you happen to remember what they were and what you didn't like as well about them?

2) How much of a sensation of bulk does it feel like in your mouth all night? What does it feel like in your mouth before you fall asleep or if you wake up during the night? Can you compare it to something - some other physical object, like say a slice of apple or an orange wedge? Or what?

In the meantime, I have clicked it into my Wish List in Amazon!

Best wishes, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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strigiformes
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by strigiformes » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:42 pm

NateS wrote:
This sounds very intriguing. A couple follow-up questions:

1) You said: "Anyway, this is the one I like best" Did you try other similar guards before this one? If so, do you happen to remember what they were and what you didn't like as well about them?

2) How much of a sensation of bulk does it feel like in your mouth all night? What does it feel like in your mouth before you fall asleep or if you wake up during the night? Can you compare it to something - some other physical object, like say a slice of apple or an orange wedge? Or what?

In the meantime, I have clicked it into my Wish List in Amazon!

Best wishes, Nate
I tried a random football/sports double mouthguard from Walmart (unknown brand), but it was too big for my mouth (note: my mouth is kid-sized) and it had that plastic thingy between the upper and lower sections to retain the shape and support the breathing holes, making it more difficult to conform to my little jaws and impossible to completely block off the holes. I eventually ruined that one trying to make it work. There are some sports-type double mouth guards that I've seen/read about that have a removable plastic insert that can be left in to block the holes, but I have no personal experience with those. If your mouth is normal-guy-size, one of those types might work.

I also tried a couple of single mouth guards - the Doctor's Night Guard and DenTek Professional Fit Dental Guard - but my purpose in trying them wasn't to stop mouth-breathing or increase moisture, so my comments on them won't really apply. I used both on the lower teeth instead of the upper, and I was attempting to find a way to make the TAP PAP mask wearable for me. The TAP PAP mouth piece connects only to the upper teeth and has to be relatively tight to support the weight of the mask under pressure. That was uncomfortable for me, but I loved the idea of headgear-free mask, so I was trying to add a lower mouth piece to give it some extra support from underneath that would let me fit the hard TAP PAP mouth piece more loosely (which didn't work so well, as there was no good way to hook them together). As with the sports double guard from Walmart, the unmoldable plastic layer on both of the night guards limited how well I could get them to fit me, along with being annoying to bite down on. My bite at the back is pretty "off", and that plastic layer interfered with me being able to close my mouth on the guards comfortably. One side would feel fine, but my teeth wouldn't come together properly on the opposite side, so I couldn't really close all the way. Again, all of that is related to my particular anatomy and the use I was attempting to put them to, so it wouldn't necessarily apply to your situation. It's something to be aware of, though, if you have any bite issues.

As for the bulk of the BioGrind, it's pretty bulky for me, but...see above - I'm 5'1" with a very small frame and mouth to match. Nevertheless, it doesn't feel all that bulky, even to me. And it isn't so bulky that I can't easily close my lips with it in. The entire thing is made of the same cushiony material, so it's not uncomfortable anywhere. The only place there's too much bulk (the way I have it fitted) is on the back/tongue-side surface of my teeth. It kind of interferes with the space my tongue wants to rest in. That part could probably be trimmed down or re-molded to flatten against my teeth better, but it isn't that bothersome and everything else is just how I want it, so I haven't messed with it.

If I had to compare it to something...ummm...it's slightly rubbery and squishy in the mouth, but still firm...I actually find it pleasant to chew on, so maybe...a dog toy? Image But since you mention it, it does feel a bit like when you take an orange slice and stick it under your lips and over your teeth to press the juice out (and look awesome). Image The material is smoother and puffier than an orange rind, though, so I'd say it's more comfy, but less tasty!

Really, it feels nice to me because it makes me feel like I don't have to worry about what my mouth is doing as I fall asleep. I sleep on my back and my lower jaw has a definite tendency to fall back and down as soon as I start to drift off. The guard seems to create a bit of gentle suction between the upper and lower to keep things together, and the ledge behind the lower teeth lets me relax my jaw and count on the guard to stop any backward movement. The less stuff I need to wear to sleep, the better, so I'd rather not ever need the guard - hence the attempts to modify my therapy enough for tongue placement to do the job alone - but wearing it is a zillion times better than waking up multiple times a night with screaming sinuses and a desert in my mouth.

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NateS
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by NateS » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:04 am

strigiformes wrote:
NateS wrote:
This sounds very intriguing. A couple follow-up questions:

1) You said: "Anyway, this is the one I like best" Did you try other similar guards before this one? If so, do you happen to remember what they were and what you didn't like as well about them?

2) How much of a sensation of bulk does it feel like in your mouth all night? What does it feel like in your mouth before you fall asleep or if you wake up during the night? Can you compare it to something - some other physical object, like say a slice of apple or an orange wedge? Or what?

In the meantime, I have clicked it into my Wish List in Amazon!

Best wishes, Nate
I tried a random football/sports double mouthguard from Walmart (unknown brand), but it was too big for my mouth (note: my mouth is kid-sized) and it had that plastic thingy between the upper and lower sections to retain the shape and support the breathing holes, making it more difficult to conform to my little jaws and impossible to completely block off the holes. I eventually ruined that one trying to make it work. There are some sports-type double mouth guards that I've seen/read about that have a removable plastic insert that can be left in to block the holes, but I have no personal experience with those. If your mouth is normal-guy-size, one of those types might work.

I also tried a couple of single mouth guards - the Doctor's Night Guard and DenTek Professional Fit Dental Guard - but my purpose in trying them wasn't to stop mouth-breathing or increase moisture, so my comments on them won't really apply. I used both on the lower teeth instead of the upper, and I was attempting to find a way to make the TAP PAP mask wearable for me. The TAP PAP mouth piece connects only to the upper teeth and has to be relatively tight to support the weight of the mask under pressure. That was uncomfortable for me, but I loved the idea of headgear-free mask, so I was trying to add a lower mouth piece to give it some extra support from underneath that would let me fit the hard TAP PAP mouth piece more loosely (which didn't work so well, as there was no good way to hook them together). As with the sports double guard from Walmart, the unmoldable plastic layer on both of the night guards limited how well I could get them to fit me, along with being annoying to bite down on. My bite at the back is pretty "off", and that plastic layer interfered with me being able to close my mouth on the guards comfortably. One side would feel fine, but my teeth wouldn't come together properly on the opposite side, so I couldn't really close all the way. Again, all of that is related to my particular anatomy and the use I was attempting to put them to, so it wouldn't necessarily apply to your situation. It's something to be aware of, though, if you have any bite issues.

As for the bulk of the BioGrind, it's pretty bulky for me, but...see above - I'm 5'1" with a very small frame and mouth to match. Nevertheless, it doesn't feel all that bulky, even to me. And it isn't so bulky that I can't easily close my lips with it in. The entire thing is made of the same cushiony material, so it's not uncomfortable anywhere. The only place there's too much bulk (the way I have it fitted) is on the back/tongue-side surface of my teeth. It kind of interferes with the space my tongue wants to rest in. That part could probably be trimmed down or re-molded to flatten against my teeth better, but it isn't that bothersome and everything else is just how I want it, so I haven't messed with it.

If I had to compare it to something...ummm...it's slightly rubbery and squishy in the mouth, but still firm...I actually find it pleasant to chew on, so maybe...a dog toy? Image But since you mention it, it does feel a bit like when you take an orange slice and stick it under your lips and over your teeth to press the juice out (and look awesome). Image The material is smoother and puffier than an orange rind, though, so I'd say it's more comfy, but less tasty!

Really, it feels nice to me because it makes me feel like I don't have to worry about what my mouth is doing as I fall asleep. I sleep on my back and my lower jaw has a definite tendency to fall back and down as soon as I start to drift off. The guard seems to create a bit of gentle suction between the upper and lower to keep things together, and the ledge behind the lower teeth lets me relax my jaw and count on the guard to stop any backward movement. The less stuff I need to wear to sleep, the better, so I'd rather not ever need the guard - hence the attempts to modify my therapy enough for tongue placement to do the job alone - but wearing it is a zillion times better than waking up multiple times a night with screaming sinuses and a desert in my mouth.
Boy, that was a g-r-e-a-t very descriptive response! Exactly what I was hoping for! It gives me a much better idea of what to expect when I try it out. Also, I was imagining that all mouthguards were hard plastic - "squishy" sounds like it could be more tolerable, so I'm going to try it. If it doesn't work, we do have a dog, so it won't be a total waste of change. Couldn't be worse than what I tried in desperation last night! - Despite feeling like a hostage, I smacked a huge strip of micropore tape across my mouth! My moustache and light beard were definitely not happy when it came time to take it off this morning, even though it did keep my leak chart under the red line for a change.

If it doesn't work, it won't be your fault - yours is a very creative idea worth a try!

Thanks again,

Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

billthepill
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Location: Central Illinois

Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by billthepill » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:29 pm

rebe wrote:Did anybody try Aveo TSD (Tongue Stablizing Device) ?
I used one for awhile, it can be a very cheap and effective xPAP alternative for some people.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: New solution for Dry Mouth?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:30 am

billthepill wrote:I used one for awhile, it can be a very cheap and effective xPAP alternative for some people.
... but not for you.