Really interested in some advice

For the past few years I've been having a sleep-related issue. To make it as specific as possible, I generally try to stay in bed for about six-and-a-half hours. Sometimes if I sleep all I can within that time I'll feel okay during the day, but if I sleep even five minutes extra, I wake up with a feeling similar to sleep inertia that I like to call "the grog", except it lasts all day and I get it without fail if I sleep any longer than I'm supposed to. To be even more specific, if you oversleep and wake up feeling like you can't focus or that you're out of sorts or fatigued, that's basically what the grog is, except it takes forever to go away. Seriously, if I set my alarm to wake me up six hours and twenty-seven minutes after getting in bed, I'll be extremely tired, but if I set it for six hours and thirty-two minutes, I wake up with "the grog."

Now, I went and got a sleep study done and my doctor told me I had an apnea that was so mild that I would receive no benefit from wearing the mask. A relative of mine has an auto-pap machine, so I tried using that several nights to see if it helped, but it didn't make any difference. If I slept more than a certain amount even while wearing the mask, I woke up with "the grog." It's gotten to the point where I'm either so tired that I become useless, or that I have "the grog" and am similarly as useless.

Has anyone heard of or had any symptoms similar to these? Because I'm really at the end of my rope here. I've tried everything I can think of and looked for tips, but I can't even find anyone who has symptoms like these or any idea on how to alleviate them. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Best regards,
Sebastian

Do you sleep on your back, or ??

Julie wrote:Do you sleep on your back, or ??

I sleep on my sides.

so that's 6 1/2 hour range...what happens after 5? 8? Maybe your sleep cycle is right at the border of 6.5??

Get your hands on your sleep study and post the results here. (scan it in and put it on a flickr type site and link to it - make sure you black out names )

There are people who can give you more insight into what it shows then just "mild".

Also if you can get data from the machine you tried you can read it with sleepyhead software and post it here too.

Also join up and login then people can send you private messages.

Tatooed Lady wrote:so that's 6 1/2 hour range...what happens after 5? 8? Maybe your sleep cycle is right at the border of 6.5??

The less sleep I get, the more tired I am. Conversely, I've tried sleeping 7, 8, 9, 10 hours and everything in between and the results are always the same. As long as I've gone over that number I'll have the grog.

BlackSpinner wrote:Get your hands on your sleep study and post the results here. (scan it in and put it on a flickr type site and link to it - make sure you black out names )

There are people who can give you more insight into what it shows then just "mild".

Also if you can get data from the machine you tried you can read it with sleepyhead software and post it here too.

Also join up and login then people can send you private messages.

I'll try to get the sleep study results. The last time I tried, the people at the clinic weren't too forthcoming and more interested in their sales pitches.

Unfortunately, the intellipap I used doesn't appear to have that function without some sort of add-on.

Get your full (not summarized) study results from your MD - they're yours by law, so don't let the clinic mess you around.

SeventhSonofaSeventhSon wrote:For the past few years I've been having a sleep-related issue. To make it as specific as possible, I generally try to stay in bed for about six-and-a-half hours. Sometimes if I sleep all I can within that time I'll feel okay during the day, but if I sleep even five minutes extra, I wake up with a feeling similar to sleep inertia that I like to call "the grog", except it lasts all day and I get it without fail if I sleep any longer than I'm supposed to. To be even more specific, if you oversleep and wake up feeling like you can't focus or that you're out of sorts or fatigued, that's basically what the grog is, except it takes forever to go away. Seriously, if I set my alarm to wake me up six hours and twenty-seven minutes after getting in bed, I'll be extremely tired, but if I set it for six hours and thirty-two minutes, I wake up with "the grog."

Now, I went and got a sleep study done and my doctor told me I had an apnea that was so mild that I would receive no benefit from wearing the mask. A relative of mine has an auto-pap machine, so I tried using that several nights to see if it helped, but it didn't make any difference. If I slept more than a certain amount even while wearing the mask, I woke up with "the grog." It's gotten to the point where I'm either so tired that I become useless, or that I have "the grog" and am similarly as useless.

Has anyone heard of or had any symptoms similar to these? Because I'm really at the end of my rope here. I've tried everything I can think of and looked for tips, but I can't even find anyone who has symptoms like these or any idea on how to alleviate them. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Best regards,
Sebastian

My suspicion is that you're waking up (for whatever reason......alarm or not) in a sleep stage that's out of sync. Or, said another way, sleep stages cycle in approximately 90 - 120 minute periods. Your sleep is being disrupted in one of those stages without being able to complete the cycle and awaken "normally". For you, that leaves you feeling "out of whack" for extended periods. If you don't set an alarm clock on the weekends or if you can complete your sleep cycles and awaken "normally", do you get that feeling?


Den

.

Wulfman... wrote:
My suspicion is that you're waking up (for whatever reason......alarm or not) in a sleep stage that's out of sync. Or, said another way, sleep stages cycle in approximately 90 - 120 minute periods. Your sleep is being disrupted in one of those stages without being able to complete the cycle and awaken "normally". For you, that leaves you feeling "out of whack" for extended periods. If you don't set an alarm clock on the weekends or if you can complete your sleep cycles and awaken "normally", do you get that feeling?


Den

.

I thought about that a while back, but that doesn't seem to be what's doing it. If I don't set an alarm and just sleep, I wake up feeling bad if I get more than a certain amount of sleep, just like with the alarm clock. I also forgot to mention that I generally have a couple of awakenings during my six-or-so hours of sleep, which may very well be interrupting my sleep cycle and making me feel bad, but from what I've read that's supposed to be pretty normal. The thing is, though, as long as I get up when my alarm goes off, "the grog" doesn't show itself, but that amount of sleep generally leaves me so tired that it's basically just as bad.

Lots of things can mess up sleep, apnea is only one.

Since your doctor ruled out apnea as the source of your problem, has he offered to try and identify the real problem, or did he just drop it? If he dropped it find a different doc. Get your detailed report and run, don't walk to a different sleep doc.

We are Sleep apnea people, and while we might know a little about that, most of us will be useless for any other sleep issues, and I don't remember anyone here reporting the same symptoms.

Sorry to not be of any help. Good luck!

Well, is it possible you've woken up just enough to now be aware of the part that hasn't yet caught up?

But in any case, you need to look at other medical conditions that might be going on, non-OSA or Cpap related, and do it by seeing a doctor, not asking us for hints, similar feelings, etc. etc. You need to have yourself checked for other possibilities and we can't do that and even if we think we've had similar symptoms, they're vague and without lab work, etc. even a doctor couldn't (responsibly) guess at what they're about.

SleepDisturbed wrote:Lots of things can mess up sleep, apnea is only one.

Since your doctor ruled out apnea as the source of your problem, has he offered to try and identify the real problem, or did he just drop it? If he dropped it find a different doc. Get your detailed report and run, don't walk to a different sleep doc.

We are Sleep apnea people, and while we might know a little about that, most of us will be useless for any other sleep issues, and I don't remember anyone here reporting the same symptoms.

Sorry to not be of any help. Good luck!

She wanted to do a daytime sleep test, but from what I could tell, that was just a stab in the dark. At any rate, it took me nearly four hours to fall asleep for the regular sleep test, so I didn't want to blow nearly a grand on a test that I wouldn't even be able to fall asleep for.

You're absolutely right and I totally appreciate your honesty. Thanks.

Julie wrote:Well, is it possible you've woken up just enough to now be aware of the part that hasn't yet caught up?

But in any case, you need to look at other medical conditions that might be going on, non-OSA or Cpap related, and do it by seeing a doctor, not asking us for hints, similar feelings, etc. etc. You need to have yourself checked for other possibilities and we can't do that and even if we think we've had similar symptoms, they're vague and without lab work, etc. even a doctor couldn't (responsibly) guess at what they're about.

I talked to multiple doctors, got some labwork, got my testosterone checked and got my head scanned, but no one could tell me what was going on, so this was my last good idea. I knew it'd have a low likelihood of success, but I figured it was worth a shot. Thanks for the advice, though.

Well don't give up! Something is causing your problem. I just don't have a clue, as I have never heard of those particular symptoms before.

Try asking on other health and wellness oriented websites. Google "sleep forums" and you will find a bunch. Maybe someone on one of those has had exactly the same issue. Or maybe get another sleep test, this time with a sleeping pill prescribed. Or try psychiatry, or neurology, or another approach that I can't think of right now.

But don't give up. "The truth is out there".