Frequent Awakenings

Java wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:About the nasal sprays.........Do you or have you ever used the spray called Afrin?


Den

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No. I use Simply Saline by Arm and Hammer. And I have Flonase from my doctor but I don't use it. Is there something special about Afrin?

It's known for its "rebound" effect. In other words, if you use it for more than about three times or three nights, you end up "NEEDING" to use it because it has something in it that causes more nasal restrictions and congestion......and becomes habit forming in that regard. I've never used it, but found out about it on this forum. Lots of CPAP users have been hooked on it and it's tough to quit using.

Glad to hear you aren't using that stuff. I don't recall reading anything adverse about the others.


Den

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You might do a forum search (above) on "Flonase" and do some reading.
I just did one and found at least one post from someone who claimed it messed with his sleep.
It was suggested that it be taken in the morning and not at night.

Edit to add link:

Read the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748&p=945462&hilit=Flonase#p945462


Den

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Wulfman... wrote: Afrin...
It's known for its "rebound" effect. In other words, if you use it for more than about three times or three nights, you end up "NEEDING" to use it because it has something in it that causes more nasal restrictions and congestion......

a very clever ENT told me that afrin really only had that effect if you use it "as directed" ie, 2x a day, then yes, it's habit forming with about 3-4 days usage and you'll get a really stuffy nose when you stop using it.

however, she told me that if you only use it once a day, before bed, then you can use it for a month or more without getting addicted.... and experience has shown that, along with her other advice, that was sound and valid.

Afrin will almost instantly open your nose bit the side effect of it it's the congestion it's worse the next day and worsens the longer you use it

Wulfman... wrote:You might do a forum search (above) on "Flonase" and do some reading.
I just did one and found at least one post from someone who claimed it messed with his sleep.
It was suggested that it be taken in the morning and not at night.

Edit to add link:

Read the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748&p=945462&hilit=Flonase#p945462


Den

.

Thanks. I've been using dimista which is flownase with an antihistamine. It may be contributing to my frequent wake-ups

Wulfman... wrote:You might do a forum search (above) on "Flonase" and do some reading.
I just did one and found at least one post from someone who claimed it messed with his sleep.
It was suggested that it be taken in the morning and not at night.

Edit to add link:

Read the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748&p=945462&hilit=Flonase#p945462


Den

.

Well I have a Flonase, but I don't use it. I have not used it in over 2 years. My doctor gave it to me because I do have sinus issues and cannot breathe threw my nose very well. My ENT did a MRI back in 2006 and said I had a golf ball sized sinus something. Then in 2012 an eye exam which took a picture all the way threw my eye also showed the same golf ball sized sinus whatever. No one thinks it's important and the Flonase didn't help so I don't take it. Sorry, I got side tracked there. I don't think the Flonase I tried two years ago is causing my sleep problems.

Java wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:You might do a forum search (above) on "Flonase" and do some reading.
I just did one and found at least one post from someone who claimed it messed with his sleep.
It was suggested that it be taken in the morning and not at night.

Edit to add link:

Read the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748&p=945462&hilit=Flonase#p945462


Den

.

Well I have a Flonase, but I don't use it. I have not used it in over 2 years. My doctor gave it to me because I do have sinus issues and cannot breathe threw my nose very well. My ENT did a MRI back in 2006 and said I had a golf ball sized sinus something. Then in 2012 an eye exam which took a picture all the way threw my eye also showed the same golf ball sized sinus whatever. No one thinks it's important and the Flonase didn't help so I don't take it. Sorry, I got side tracked there. I don't think the Flonase I tried two years ago is causing my sleep problems.

Well, OK then. Thanks for that info.
We'll eliminate some things and consider other things as we go along.
Could be that "golf ball sized sinus whatever" may play a part in some of this, but we'll try to work around that, too.

Looking at and trying to compare your nightly reports, earlier, I noticed a pattern to your "sleep" periods through the night........shorter ones early on and then you manage to stay asleep longer (or in bed) later through the night. So far, the patterns seem to be consistent regardless of what your pressure settings are. That's another reason I'd like you to continue with the current settings for a few more nights. I did notice that the snoring lessened with higher pressures, but I don't think you should increase it just yet. I'd prefer to see you get somewhat accustomed to a fixed pressure first.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote:

Java wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:You might do a forum search (above) on "Flonase" and do some reading.
I just did one and found at least one post from someone who claimed it messed with his sleep.
It was suggested that it be taken in the morning and not at night.

Edit to add link:

Read the whole thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748&p=945462&hilit=Flonase#p945462


Den

.

Well I have a Flonase, but I don't use it. I have not used it in over 2 years. My doctor gave it to me because I do have sinus issues and cannot breathe threw my nose very well. My ENT did a MRI back in 2006 and said I had a golf ball sized sinus something. Then in 2012 an eye exam which took a picture all the way threw my eye also showed the same golf ball sized sinus whatever. No one thinks it's important and the Flonase didn't help so I don't take it. Sorry, I got side tracked there. I don't think the Flonase I tried two years ago is causing my sleep problems.

Well, OK then. Thanks for that info.
We'll eliminate some things and consider other things as we go along.
Could be that "golf ball sized sinus whatever" may play a part in some of this, but we'll try to work around that, too.

Looking at and trying to compare your nightly reports, earlier, I noticed a pattern to your "sleep" periods through the night........shorter ones early on and then you manage to stay asleep longer (or in bed) later through the night. So far, the patterns seem to be consistent regardless of what your pressure settings are. That's another reason I'd like you to continue with the current settings for a few more nights. I did notice that the snoring lessened with higher pressures, but I don't think you should increase it just yet. I'd prefer to see you get somewhat accustomed to a fixed pressure first.


Den

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What do you think about 13? I was going to try 13 tonight and see if it stops the snores. Too soon?

Java wrote:What do you think about 13? I was going to try 13 tonight and see if it stops the snores. Too soon?

Well, if you want to try it, go ahead. It's not like you haven't been at that and higher (changing) pressures before.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote:

Java wrote:What do you think about 13? I was going to try 13 tonight and see if it stops the snores. Too soon?

Well, if you want to try it, go ahead. It's not like you haven't been at that and higher (changing) pressures before.


Den

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Well here is last night, and even though Pugsy said to turn off the AHI graph, I left it on this time because I still wonder why my wake-ups are right after an AHI event?

Another "interesting" report.

Some of the interesting part is the snoring patterns. They're fairly abrupt as to their beginnings and endings and when they happen. Some correlate with some leaking and some don't. Overall, the snoring index (14 - 16) isn't horrible either. (I've had much, much higher numbers......like in the "hundreds")

I wouldn't "sweat" the AHI numbers at this point. You're still well within the boundaries

Still some short periods of sleep at the beginning and longer ones later. Maybe the shorter ones are getting a little longer....

Now........
"How do you feel?"
Did you feel that the leaks affected your sleep? (they weren't always really high when you shut the machine off)

I'm still trying to figure out the short sleep durations at the beginning.......
You might think about anything that you do, eat, drink or whatever on a regular basis that MAY affect your first part of the night and cause short durations of sleep.

Do you wish to try that setting another night?


Den

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Den, I'm no expert on reading flow rate charts (I just got my S9 last summer), but it looks to me as if they OP may not be asleep, at least not soundly, the first couple hours of the night. See how ragged the flow rate chart is from about 0200 until about 0430? See the variability in the Respiration Rate graph at the same time. Then everything settles down about 0430 and the OP begins snoring until apparently abruptly awakened about 0540. Back to sleep around 0600 looks pretty good and starts snoring again around 0645 until another awakening at 0740 then back to sleep about 0750 looking good until another wake up about 0950 and the sleep until about 1140. These are pretty regular awakenings 0540, 0740, 0950, wake about 1140.
Do you suppose there could be environmental issues? Does the OP go to bed with the TV on? Fall asleep with it on? Read in bed the first couple of hours? Is there an alarm set that goes off every two hours? What else could cause awakenings at such regular intervals?
Java do have any ideas about this? Anything peculiar in your neighborhood? Transit system? Buses, trains, planes? Anything that might disturb your sleep? Sounds, lights, etc,? Especially at such regular intervals? Do your past charts have such regular patterns of awakenings? At the same hours?
Java, are you a shift worker? Is your normal bedtime around 2 AM? Or, is the machine clock set to the wrong time (I know some machines can't be set to local time)?
BTW, Java, that AHI chart at the bottom doesn't really tell us much. It is just counting the events that have occurred in the last hour. The Event Flag chart at the top gives us basically the same information in an easier to read format. The one at the bottom is just counting the tick marks of the last hour of the one at the top, that's why Pugsy said you don't need it.

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Den, I'm no expert on reading flow rate charts (I just got my S9 last summer), but it looks to me as if they OP may not be asleep, at least not soundly, the first couple hours of the night. See how ragged the flow rate chart is from about 0200 until about 0430? See the variability in the Respiration Rate graph at the same time. Then everything settles down about 0430 and the OP begins snoring until apparently abruptly awakened about 0540. Back to sleep around 0600 looks pretty good and starts snoring again around 0645 until another awakening at 0740 then back to sleep about 0750 looking good until another wake up about 0950 and the sleep until about 1140. These are pretty regular awakenings 0540, 0740, 0950, wake about 1140.
Do you suppose there could be environmental issues? Does the OP go to bed with the TV on? Fall asleep with it on? Read in bed the first couple of hours? Is there an alarm set that goes off every two hours? What else could cause awakenings at such regular intervals?
Java do have any ideas about this? Anything peculiar in your neighborhood? Transit system? Buses, trains, planes? Anything that might disturb your sleep? Sounds, lights, etc,? Especially at such regular intervals? Do your past charts have such regular patterns of awakenings? At the same hours?
Java, are you a shift worker? Is your normal bedtime around 2 AM? Or, is the machine clock set to the wrong time (I know some machines can't be set to local time)?
BTW, Java, that AHI chart at the bottom doesn't really tell us much. It is just counting the events that have occurred in the last hour. The Event Flag chart at the top gives us basically the same information in an easier to read format. The one at the bottom is just counting the tick marks of the last hour of the one at the top, that's why Pugsy said you don't need it.

I know. That's why I asked Java to think about anything that may be affecting the first part of the night. There's some "curious" stuff going on during the night and it's hard to figure it all out. That's why it's important to get the users to do the "thinking and evaluating" (introspection) that is almost impossible for those of us who look at the evidence after-the-fact.


Den

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I go to bed between 1:00 and 2:00 am. I believe the clock on my machine is correct. I get in bed and I am not tired so I do watch movies or read on my iPad. When I start to get tired I put the iPad away and put on my mask. If I don't use my iPad for a bit my mind will race about things that need to be done and bills that need to be paid. The iPad clears my mind and lets me relax. It takes me a bit to all asleep and I wake up like every hour at first. As the night goes on the sleep gets better till it's time to wake up but then I am exhausted from all the waking up all night. My last cup of coffee is around 6pm after dinner. This might sound late to some people, but since I don't even go to bed 'till 1:00am that's 7 hours with no caffeine. As for food... I have tried eating almonds or drinking kefir to stabilize my blood sugars and not wake up from hunger. I have tried drinking tart cherry juice for the melatonin. I have tried a lot of the remedies I read online and see on TV. Nothing works for me. The one night I took a melatonin pill I was wide awake and agitated. Also, I don't work because I am disabled (Fibro, COPD, Chronic Fatigue). My sleep doctor says everyone wakes up between each sleep cycle but most people don't wake up enough to realize it and I just happen to come wide awake. Well it is seriously affecting my health and pain levels. After I sleep 1 hour my muscles are so stiff I cannot even move and I feel like I am going to fall down walking to the bathroom because my legs are so weak. However, after I sleep 3 hours, the pain is less and I am much stronger. I just know if I could sleep 6-8 hours straight I would feel better overall. I don't think I am getting any restorative sleep.

As for the environment, I don't think there are any alarms or sounds or lights that bother me. Funny thing is my husband can get up to his alarm, shower and get dressed, take the dog out and bring him back in and go to work and it won't even wake me up. I will wake up and he will be gone. So when I do sleep, I sleep sound.

I am going to keep the machine settings the same for tonight.

Java wrote: I am not tired so I do watch movies or read on my iPad. ...
As for the environment, I don't think there are any alarms or sounds or lights that bother me. .

more and more research is showing that the bright blueish light shined right into your eyeballs from tablets and phones disrupts sleep. it's surely not the only thing, but it's probably a contributing factor.

https://justgetflux.com/ is an app that dims and reduces the "STAY AWAKE" blue light from tablets in the evenings.

try it.