Can drugs help reduce OSA?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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perchancetodream7
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by perchancetodream7 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:01 am

You are right about the morphine dosage, sorry, I've been on opiods so long that I tend to forget that the amounts I need are higher than what one would "normally" take for pain relief.
I also take Klonopin before bed most nights...like Xanax, it's a benzo (not great, I know), but it does help me to get into REM sleep, which the CPAP therapy alone does not.

Before I found out I had apnea, I HAD to take the klonopin just to experience dreams; otherwise, I would just lay there in stage 1 or 2 sleep. The benzos do not help the centrals though; I don't think anything will except ASV treatment.

You talk about the intense dreams you had from the Paxil. It's funny, but since I've been getting into REM sleep (although fragmented) I have had such vivid, wild dreams. I've been told that's because my body has to get used to being in a deep sleep state again.

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Too tall
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:45 am

perchancetodream7 wrote:You are right about the morphine dosage, sorry, I've been on opiods so long that I tend to forget that the amounts I need are higher than what one would "normally" take for pain relief.
I also take Klonopin before bed most nights...like Xanax, it's a benzo (not great, I know), but it does help me to get into REM sleep, which the CPAP therapy alone does not.

Before I found out I had apnea, I HAD to take the klonopin just to experience dreams; otherwise, I would just lay there in stage 1 or 2 sleep. The benzos do not help the centrals though; I don't think anything will except ASV treatment.

You talk about the intense dreams you had from the Paxil. It's funny, but since I've been getting into REM sleep (although fragmented) I have had such vivid, wild dreams. I've been told that's because my body has to get used to being in a deep sleep state again.
Your story sounds almost identical to mine. Without the benzo, and just the oxyecodone, I rest nicely but not in rem. Just kind of lay there in what you mentioned was probably stage 1 or 2. My only problem with the benzo is the half life is so short that it onlly gets me thru about half of the night. But it works. Sometimes I have to take a another benzo after about 3 or 4 hours of sleep. It doesn't seem that the opiates has any effect, good or bad on my OSA. I'm not seeing any central apnea, I'm not very savy on what that really is or what makes it different than a mechanical OSA. (lack of a better word)
System One RemStar Pro with C-Flex+ (460P)

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:35 am

Tool Tall, forgive me if this was mentioned earlier, I skimmed over the posts but didn't see it, I think you, as many, are confusing AHI with quality of sleep. They are not necessarily directly related. For example, let's assume that as the drugs and their benefit wear off, you are more easily aroused, but not necessarily fully awakened. Now, let's assume that during some arousals you wake to the point that you change positions and while doing so, hold your breath for a few seconds, the machine might falsely score this as an apnea or hypopnea (usually a CA) and your AHI would be higher than actual. On the other hand, let's assume that the drugs don't allow you to enter REM or SWS, in either case, since many people experience higher event counts during these periods, the drugs could cause an abnormal sleep architecture condition which artificially lowers your AHI. These are but two examples, some drugs, or lack of, could have exactly the opposite effects.
Without an EEG, it is difficult for an individual to tell if these things are occurring, although a Zeo could be helpful.
In the absence of an EEG, I think the best measure of quality of sleep is how you feel the next day, not absolute AHI (assuming it's below a norm of about 5). Afterall, if you managed to stay in a very light state of sleep all night, you very well might have an AHI of 0.0, though you probably wouldn't feel rested the next day. Maybe you could track how you feel the next day as well as AHI to measure the effectiveness of any drug.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

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Too tall
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:27 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Tool Tall, forgive me if this was mentioned earlier, I skimmed over the posts but didn't see it, I think you, as many, are confusing AHI with quality of sleep. They are not necessarily directly related. For example, let's assume that as the drugs and their benefit wear off, you are more easily aroused, but not necessarily fully awakened. Now, let's assume that during some arousals you wake to the point that you change positions and while doing so, hold your breath for a few seconds, the machine might falsely score this as an apnea or hypopnea (usually a CA) and your AHI would be higher than actual. On the other hand, let's assume that the drugs don't allow you to enter REM or SWS, in either case, since many people experience higher event counts during these periods, the drugs could cause an abnormal sleep architecture condition which artificially lowers your AHI. These are but two examples, some drugs, or lack of, could have exactly the opposite effects.
Without an EEG, it is difficult for an individual to tell if these things are occurring, although a Zeo could be helpful.
In the absence of an EEG, I think the best measure of quality of sleep is how you feel the next day, not absolute AHI (assuming it's below a norm of about 5). Afterall, if you managed to stay in a very light state of sleep all night, you very well might have an AHI of 0.0, though you probably wouldn't feel rested the next day. Maybe you could track how you feel the next day as well as AHI to measure the effectiveness of any drug.
This is such good information, thank you. I have so much to learn about the relationship between all of these parameters, not to mention throwing in the variable of drug effects etc....Although how I feel is not tangible or accurately measurable but I think I could do that. I think maybe I will start with a spreadsheet so I can try to quantify the different changes I make whether it be in medicine or pressures, AHI etc... Thanks for the ideas.
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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:37 am

Too tall wrote:I think maybe I will start with a spreadsheet so I can try to quantify the different changes I make
Excellent idea. When I was keeping a spreadsheet, I used a simple 1, 2, or 3 (bad, OK, Good) to record how I felt. You may want to assess it more than once a day, say, for example, after rising and late afternoon. I found it a little difficult to be objective in the morning if I recorded the feeling after I looked at my numbers, objectivity was easier in the afternoon.

While you're at it, you may want to include other items such as exercise, caffeine use, etc. - things that change, or could change, in your routine which might impact your sleep.

Google good sleep hygiene and make sure you are practicing it; Sleep Hygiene, for example. Depending on variability, some of the other sleep hygiene items could also be useful to track by spreadsheet.

Good luck with it.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video