Sleeping face DOWN

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
saltyk9
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Sleeping face DOWN

Post by saltyk9 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:51 am

Anyone ever think that they could prevent their OSA if they had a way to sleep with their face straight down (without suffocating themselves)?
This would be like sleeping on a massage table with one of those pillows with a hole for the face to go into. Anybody ever tried something like this? Did it help?

McSleepy
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by McSleepy » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:14 am

When I was a child, I remember something forcing me to start sleeping on my stomach. Now I know it must have been early onset of sleep apnea. Since then, I have been completely unable to sleep in any other position than on flat on my stomach (face down, prone position). That, obviously, hasn't prevented my OSA but it has made it manageable. It is a well-known fact that sleeping in that position helps with OSA. Many people have tried; many have failed, though. And some who have succeeded aren't quite there - they sleep more like on their side, leaning downward. I don't think you could actually sleep on a massage table, but what I do comes as close to it as possible. First, because of my GERD, I have my bed inclined about 10 degrees, which isn't much but it alleviates the pressure a bit. Then, I use a very soft and thin dawn pillow that I can easily form into shape. I have one or both hands under the pillow and shape it so that it supports my head in a nearly straight-down position. Of course, my mask allows this to happen. This all has happened naturally and I can sleep that way just fine. It gets quite challenging but I can even pull this off in hotel beds when I travel. Ultimately, my OSA is well managed (now with a CPAP) and my AHI is negligible every night. I couldn't tell you how bad it would be if I were forced to sleep in any other position - I just couldn't fall asleep. As evidenced in three sleep studies, when because of the data cables I couldn't get on my stomach and, as a result, couldn't fall asleep all night.
McSleepy

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Janknitz
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by Janknitz » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:03 pm

We had one member who had very mild apnea, just could NOT adjust to CPAP, and she found that her symptoms were gone if she slept face down like that.

It's always best to err on the side of caution, however--don't ever ASSUME that your apena is not a problem simply because you sleep in that position--ask for a test. In the case of the other member, she used her CPAP at 4 cm (lowest setting) to measure her apneas in that position. Not 100% reliable, but she made a very careful and reasoned decision based on several factors, not just that.

That position can be unsafe if you have reflux (and some people have silent reflux so they don't know it) or if there's not enough fresh air available, so be careful!
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saltyk9
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by saltyk9 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Janknitz wrote:We had one member who had very mild apnea, just could NOT adjust to CPAP, and she found that her symptoms were gone if she slept face down like that.

It's always best to err on the side of caution, however--don't ever ASSUME that your apena is not a problem simply because you sleep in that position--ask for a test. In the case of the other member, she used her CPAP at 4 cm (lowest setting) to measure her apneas in that position. Not 100% reliable, but she made a very careful and reasoned decision based on several factors, not just that.

That position can be unsafe if you have reflux (and some people have silent reflux so they don't know it) or if there's not enough fresh air available, so be careful!
How was she able to sleep face down? Like the way McSleepy described?

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rested gal
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by rested gal » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:11 pm

Re: Mask for A Stomach sleeper?
viewtopic.php?p=421852#p421852

That thread has a post by Julie written in Nov 21, 2009, describing a trench she had cut in a thick piece of memory foam. The trench accomodates a mask while lying on one's stomach, face down.
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saltyk9
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by saltyk9 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:20 pm

rested gal wrote:Re: Mask for A Stomach sleeper?
viewtopic.php?p=421852#p421852

That thread has a post by Julie written in Nov 21, 2009, describing a trench she had cut in a thick piece of memory foam. The trench accomodates a mask while lying on one's stomach, face down.
The person that posted the picture of that face down pillow was exactly what I was thinking about. Something that you can literally sleep FACE DOWN, not just on your stomach, in.
I think that if I slept with something like this, my apnea would be much better. I have a very small neck and am quite skinny, so my restricted airway has more to do with structure rather than excess soft tissue. I can certainly see that producing some lower back issues, though. Thank you for that reference.

McSleepy
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by McSleepy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:03 am

I should note that the pillow in the picture is not really designed for a full-night sleep and it is quite difficult to succeed at that. I have tried (with an arrangement of two pillows) and I wasn't able to get a continuous sleep that way. The reason is simple: you can't sleep in one fixed position all night; you need adjustments to allow the muscles and tissues to relax and get blood circulation back, etc. What I do - the small asymmetry in my face-down position - allows my body to have two basic positions, which put stress alternatively on each side of my body: the cheeks, the shoulder, the legs.
I guess it wouldn't be too expensive to try - you never know - but I wouldn't get my hopes too high. And there isn't really too much difference between 100% straight-down and my position. Granted, individual success will vary a lot, so we need to try different approaches. I wish you good luck in finding what works best for you.
McSleepy

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Julie
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by Julie » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:29 pm

A trick I use (well, a bit more than a trick ) is a memory foam mattress, with a trench 1' long cut from the top of the mattress down towards the bottom, 3" or so wide and 4" deep. My UM FF mask fits into the slot on whatever diagonal angle I choose and because the vent on the mask is not right at the angle of the hose-mask bend as so many are, bedding and/or the mattress does not block it, the vent being higher on the mask itself.

It does sound bizarre, but I've used that for years and it works.

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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by davelikesbeer » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:54 pm

Whenever I get a massage, I think laying in the prone position with my face in the face cradle is really comfortable. However, at the end of the massage, I find that my nose gets clogged. I don't think I could last the entire night face down.

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scrapper
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by scrapper » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:56 pm

saltyk9 wrote:Anyone ever think that they could prevent their OSA if they had a way to sleep with their face straight down (without suffocating themselves)?
This would be like sleeping on a massage table with one of those pillows with a hole for the face to go into. Anybody ever tried something like this? Did it help?
I did this all of the time before my official diagnosis--I think it was my body's way of trying to keep the airway open with gravity as much as possible.........fooled my body for a bit, but not for long..........

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McSleepy
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by McSleepy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:11 pm

davelikesbeer wrote:Whenever I get a massage, I think laying in the prone position with my face in the face cradle is really comfortable. However, at the end of the massage, I find that my nose gets clogged. I don't think I could last the entire night face down.
I was going to comment on that but it slipped my mind: the prone position is good for the soft tissue in your larynx but is bad for your nose as the rush of blood causes a swelling of the nasal lining. I have a deviated septum and enlarged turbinates and my nose would congest regularly at night, and for years after getting my CPAP I actually thought that sleeping on my stomach was bad and was trying to figure out a way to learn sleeping on my back! Until I got this procedure that cleared up my nasal passages for good and now I'm quite happy sleeping in the prone position with (relatively) lower pressure. So, as they say, your mileage may vary.
McSleepy

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Previous machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto 25 BiLevel. Mask: Breeze with dilator pillows. Software: ResScan ver. 5.1
ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto; Puritan-Bennett Breeze nasal pillow mask; healthy, active, middle-aged man; tall, athletic build; stomach sleeper; on CPAP since 2003; lives @ 5000 ft; surgically-corrected deviated septum and turbinates; regular nasal washes

TomConway

Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by TomConway » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:40 pm

Have been thinking about this myself. Even thinking of buying a massage table. Problem: It would be too high; move around in the night and fall off and you'd get injured. Wondering if you could incline your head slightly upward with a towel or padding of some kind on your forehead (with your face in the massage table's hole), which would encourage your mouth to remain open. allowing easier breathing. My nose also clogs up when I'm face down on a massage table. Stays clogged up most of the time anyway.

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Julie
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by Julie » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:36 pm

1) get a soft cervical collar at the drugstore - it'll keep your head from falling forward and your airway from closing too much.

2) you don't want your mouth open because you lose therapy air (unless of course you wear a full face mask).

3) massage table openings are too deep, you'll end up with neck problems.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:10 pm

Sleepweaver masks are very nice for tummy sleeping.
Most folks turn their face slightly to the side, because breathing is good.
Have you ever considered something like the apparatus used in burn units?

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J mann

Re: Sleeping face DOWN

Post by J mann » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:59 pm

Has anyone tried a face down pillow,for sleeping face down, for sleep apnea?