My back up power set up questions UPDATE

sleep_quest wrote: GoalZero Escape 150 Adventure Kit with 30 watt monocrystalline solar briefcase on Craigslist for $385. Is that a good price for that type of thing?...

Sounds pricey to me; I bought the Escape on a COSTCO road show 3 yrs ago. I paid $250, it came with a lantern, 1 solar panel, and something else I can't remember at the moment, I also bought another panel. Since then I've purchased 2 speaker boxes with panels and a 10-LED light bar which puts light on my keyboard as I type. I use the speaker with my cell phone when several of us are talking to another friend making hearing so much easier; I also use it with my laptop which has low volume.

I just checked the GoalZero site and the Escape battery is no longer available, not sure why nor do I know what replaces it, perhaps that's why the seller is asking so much.

sleep_quest wrote:Soooo, about solar...

CapnLoki wrote:...when the outage extends for a week I don't want to rely on a little solar panel that doesn't work when its overcast and can only put out a trickle charge at best.

Maybe the solution is a small solar generator? Quiet and maintenance free yet powerful enough to provide emergency power for an extended period of time (provided the sun is out)?

My current plan is to get a second DC battery with the same specs as the one I have now. What kind of/size solar panels would I need to recharge each battery faster than a trickle? Ideally one battery would be in use while the other is charging so I wouldn't need them both at the same time. Or depending on what I am powering would I be better off if I use them in parallel in which case I may need to charge as I'm using them...???

A 100 Ah AGM will accept about 25 Amps for much of the charge cycle. On my boat I have 3 50 Watt panels which on a nice day can generate 6 Amps, so its feasible to have several large 120 Watt panels to charge at the highest rate. I would like to double or triple my panels. Of course, if all you're using this for is a CPAP, you only need a few Ah a day, so it really depends on what you want to power. Sorry to be so vague - there are just too many variables to figure this out without knowing what you really want. Generally I would say bank all your batteries together, but this works best if you have a large charger - BTW, small solar panels are sometimes called "unregulated" because they don't put out enough current to overcharge a full sized battery.

sleep_quest wrote: Propane...by 'bottle' are you referring to those big grey 'pill shaped' looking things that are installed out in a yard, one of those small Coleman type bottles, a gas grill tank or something else entirely? We have natural gas powered appliances (water heater, stove top, dryer, furnace) and after an earthquake I know that we'd need to confirm there's no gas leak before relighting a pilot light for example. If you're talking about one of those pill things I'd imagine propane lines could possibly have leak issues too, correct?

My brother's generator has a large tank of propane, like you'd see next to a house, which can power all of the house needs for a week or more. His fear now is that it will fire up while he's away and burn $600 of propane!

CapnLoki wrote:Sorry to be so vague - there are just too many variables to figure this out without knowing what you really want. Generally I would say bank all your batteries together, but this works best if you have a large charger - BTW, small solar panels are sometimes called "unregulated" because they don't put out enough current to overcharge a full sized battery.

Thanks, I'm the one being vague, but now that I have my primary CPAP backup all set up I can start thinking about what other things I'd like to run in the event of an extended power outage. A fridge, hot water heater, and TV with a set top box is a good start. I don't know how much power those items use now so I guess I have some more work to do.

Note: I can now say I am definitely not going to be investing in a gas powered generator to run for any length of time...my neighbor is having some work done on his home and the guys have been running one for the last 3 hours...it's driving me crazy!

Guest wrote:I think a generator it nice to have when the power goes out but your neighbors appreciated it when you shut that thing off.

It may be just my opinion but I think that battery power it the way to go if you need to power something after dark - like sleeping equipment - whether you are camping or at home. Not to mention the battery pack is much easier to setup and having a generator brings on a whole new set of problems.

Enuff said...

sleep_quest wrote:I can now say I am definitely not going to be investing in a gas powered generator to run for any length of time...my neighbor is having some work done on his home and the guys have been running one for the last 3 hours...it's driving me crazy!

Imagine trying to sleep while your neighbor(s) run one (many) of those all nite to keep the fridge cold? I just eat down the perishables, leave the door closed, and go to sleep

We are just spoiled American people if (when) we can't have our fridge running 24x7.

Guest wrote:We are just spoiled American people if (when) we can't have our fridge running 24x7.

Very true. In my youth in the aftermath of a super typhoon we were without running water for 1 month and without power for 3 months. If I can avoid having to deal with that by using solar energy in adulthood then I'm all for it.

sleep_quest wrote:Thanks, I'm the one being vague, but now that I have my primary CPAP backup all set up I can start thinking about what other things I'd like to run in the event of an extended power outage. A fridge, hot water heater, and TV with a set top box is a good start. I don't know how much power those items use now so I guess I have some more work to do.

This is a large topic to understand. My personal experience living offgrid on a boat relies on selecting aplliances that use the absolute minimum power - all of the lights are LED, the fridge is smaller than a small dorm fridge, most things will run directly from 12V, etc. Even so, I would need to triple my solar panel to keep up in normal weather and would sill need to run a generator occasionally during bad weather.

sleep_quest wrote: Note: I can now say I am definitely not going to be investing in a gas powered generator to run for any length of time...my neighbor is having some work done on his home and the guys have been running one for the last 3 hours...it's driving me crazy!

Yes they can be annoying, I usually run my boat's diesel (much quieter) and only use the genset when no one is nearby. However, if there's a long term power outage, your neighbors will not be complaining, they will be there with extension cord in hand! Also, in spite of guest's frequent comments, owning a genset does not obligate you to run it all night long. The nice thing about the genset is that it puts out a huge amount of power compared to solar. My genset would add 20 Amp Hours to your large battery in a hour, enough to run a CPAP for 5-7 days, and it would only be running at 15%. In fact, because it thottles back at reduced load, it would not be audible in your neighbor's house and would only use a tiny bit of fuel! If the noise is an issue for you, definitely look into the variable throttle gensets, such as the Honda; at low power they are more of a hum than a roar.

CapnLoki wrote:If the noise is an issue for you, definitely look into the variable throttle gensets, such as the Honda; at low power they are more of a hum than a roar.

I'm sure the generator being used yesterday was not a newer model or had not been maintained very well. It kept on stalling and needing to be restarted over and over again. The good news is that the neighbor is having whole house solar installed (which is why the work was being done) so I'll be running over to their house with MY extension cord if I need it.

CapnLoki, do you live on your boat full time? I thought I'd read that you were on it for a month or so at a time and assumed you were a fisherman or something like that.

CapnLoki wrote:Also, in spite of guest's frequent comments, owning a genset does not obligate you to run it all night long.

You are gonna have to show me where that was said...I think you are known to your friends as "quite the fabricator" <smile>.

I also doubt that this genset will have enuff to supply you + neighbors.

Sure they are nice to have but bring in a new set of problems & concerns. Don't overplay it then down play the work required to use one (and the danger).

sleep_quest wrote: CapnLoki, do you live on your boat full time? I thought I'd read that you were on it for a month or so at a time and assumed you were a fisherman or something like that.

I'm strictly a recreational sailor these days. While we worked we tried to spend a month cruising New England each, since retiring that's gone up - We've spend a year going up and down the east coast, plus a few other long trips, and spend a number of full summers "squatting" in places like Martha's Vineyard. Almost all of this has been at anchor on on a mooring - almost no time connected to shore power - so we've had to learn how to stretch an Amp-Hour.

Guest wrote:

CapnLoki wrote:Also, in spite of guest's frequent comments, owning a genset does not obligate you to run it all night long.

You are gonna have to show me where that was said...I think you are known to your friends as "quite the fabricator" <smile>.

I know you have trouble taking responsibility for what you say, but someone named "guest" wrote:
"It may be just my opinion but I think that battery power it the way to go if you need to power something after dark "
and
"Imagine trying to sleep while your neighbor(s) run one (many) of those all nite to keep the fridge cold?"

Guest wrote:I also doubt that this genset will have enuff to supply you + neighbors.

Again you're implying there's no value to a small genset because it won't power enough. If all a genset does is recharge a number of batteries it may earn its keep. The particular problem where I live is that most heating systems require circulating pumps; my small genset could probably power the pumps for several houses. In other areas it might be needed just for running water, or pumping out a basement. For people with these needs even a few minutes of genset time would be a God send.

Guest wrote:Sure they are nice to have but bring in a new set of problems & concerns. Don't overplay it then down play the work required to use one (and the danger).

A genset is certainly not for everyone - if keeping a lawn mower or snow blower running is too much, then a genset probably will be also. As for the risk, if you leave it outside and not next to an open window, its pretty safe. There are only a small number of accidents each year (compared to the number in use) and almost all fatalities are from using one indoors. Though tragic, these are avoidable deaths, especially since generators have labels that read "Using a generator indoors can KILL YOU IN MINUTES." I'm surprised that you are so concerned about this risk, but poo poo'd my issue of making sure that batteries are protected with a battery box, given that there are several thousand injuries a year from exploding car batteries. Most are from charging, but a quarter were simply from adjusting cables. For the record, there is very little risk when using a sealed AGM battery if its in a box so the terminal can't get shorted, and the charger is high quality so it won't overcharge. For long term maintenance, a low output trickle charger is best.

Remember, I started on this genset thing by pointing out that for the purpose of making sure you could recharge a large batterry use for a CPAP, a genset might be a better value than a solar panel. I still stand by that.