My back up power set up questions UPDATE

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Muse-Inc
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Muse-Inc » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:54 pm

Something simple is getting a Goal Zero rechargeable battery. Their Escape battery ran my S9 Autoset (without humidifier) at 13 pressure for 7 hrs one night with enough charge to do another 7. It recharges by plugging it into the wall or into their solar panels (I bought 2 panels as it says that should recharge the battery in about 5 hrs). I have to plug it in about every 3 months. I've used it 3 or 4 times when power goes out. I am one of those apparently rare ones who does not wake up when my machine stops blowing air, so I also have a power outage alarm plugged into the same circuit that runs my machine; it flashes and beeps which wakes me up. Sleep Nation has a video on the Goal Zero battery solution. I live in sunny Atlanta so I think this is a reasonable solution, perhaps not ideal but the learning curve and thoughts of explosive gases freak me out too much to go there !

With severe OSA and terrified of suffocation, I have a recording oximeter that I can set to alarm when my O2 desats to whatever % I set. It runs on AAs. I have that as backup if the Escape battery loses power/can't be re-charged. I would have fragmented sleep in that case, but better that than dead.

_________________
Mask: Hybrid Full Face CPAP Mask with Nasal Pillows and Headgear
Humidifier: HumidAire H4i™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Started Aug '07 CPAP Escape at 11 then 9, S9 APAP range 9.8-16, now 10-17
ResMed S9 range 9.8-17, RespCare Hybrid FFM
Never, never, never, never say never.

User avatar
sleep_quest
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area - Peninsula

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by sleep_quest » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:38 pm

Muse-Inc wrote:Something simple is getting a Goal Zero rechargeable battery. Their Escape battery ran my S9 Autoset (without humidifier) at 13 pressure for 7 hrs one night with enough charge to do another 7. It recharges by plugging it into the wall or into their solar panels (I bought 2 panels as it says that should recharge the battery in about 5 hrs). I have to plug it in about every 3 months. I've used it 3 or 4 times when power goes out. I am one of those apparently rare ones who does not wake up when my machine stops blowing air, so I also have a power outage alarm plugged into the same circuit that runs my machine; it flashes and beeps which wakes me up. Sleep Nation has a video on the Goal Zero battery solution. I live in sunny Atlanta so I think this is a reasonable solution, perhaps not ideal but the learning curve and thoughts of explosive gases freak me out too much to go there !

With severe OSA and terrified of suffocation, I have a recording oximeter that I can set to alarm when my O2 desats to whatever % I set. It runs on AAs. I have that as backup if the Escape battery loses power/can't be re-charged. I would have fragmented sleep in that case, but better that than dead.
Thanks for the tip Muse-Inc. I thought about a solar solution especially since a dealer is selling a Goal Zero Escape 150 Adventure Kit with 30 watt monocrystalline solar briefcase on Craigslist for $385. Is that a good price for that type of thing? Admittedly I know nothing about solar considering I just got a lesson in the good ol' deep cycle battery. I also briefly looked at other portable solar kits but I felt they were too far out of my comfort zone for my short term goal of getting extended back up power. Plus I do have the Duracell powerpack - my PRS1 is plugged into the powerpack which is plugged into the wall so there is no loss of therapy in the case of a short term power outage.

Solar does intrigue me so perhaps I'll be revisiting the subject sooner rather than later especially since you say it is 'something simple' and that's right up my alley!
Last edited by sleep_quest on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by CapnLoki » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:04 pm

sleep_quest wrote: Thanks for the tip Muse-Inc. I thought about a solar solution especially since a dealer is selling a Goal Zero Escape 150 Adventure Kit with 30 watt monocrystalline solar briefcase on Craigslist for $385. Is that a good price for that type of thing? Admittedly I know nothing about solar considering I just got a lesson in the good ol' deep cycle battery. I also briefly looked at other portable solar kits but I felt they were too far out of my comfort zone for my short term goal of getting extended back up power. Plus I do have the Duracell powerpack - my PRS1 is plugged into the powerpack which is plugged into the wall so there is no loss of therapy in the case of a short term power supply.

Solar does intrigue me so perhaps I'll be revisiting the subject sooner rather than later especially since you say it is 'something simple' and that's right up my alley!
The Goal Zero gear looks very spiffy but is very overpriced. For instance, this has a 14Ah AGM battery, while you can get a 35 Ah U1 (mentioned in another thread) for $65, adding a charger is still under $100. Solar is a whole other issue, but the roll-up panels are best suited to camping, and much better panels can be had for home use. Frankly, for home backup I'd consider a small generator - 4000 Watt can be had for $400 - that can quickly charge and even run a TV and fridge. Although I talk a lot about batteries and solar (which I use frequently on my boat) my home backup for a major outage is a Honda genset.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Guest

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Guest » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:58 pm

I think a generator it nice to have when the power goes out but your neighbors appreciated it when you shut that thing off.

It may be just my opinion but I think that battery power it the way to go if you need to power something after dark - like sleeping equipment - whether you are camping or at home. Not to mention the battery pack is much easier to setup and having a generator brings on a whole new set of problems.

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by CapnLoki » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:49 pm

Guest wrote:I think a generator it nice to have when the power goes out but your neighbors appreciated it when you shut that thing off.

It may be just my opinion but I think that battery power it the way to go if you need to power something after dark - like sleeping equipment - whether you are camping or at home. Not to mention the battery pack is much easier to setup and having a generator brings on a whole new set of problems.
I'm not suggesting running a small genset at night; a battery is still needed. But when the outage extends for a week I don't want to rely on a little solar panel that doesn't work when its overcast and can only put out a trickle charge at best. If it goes past the few days a battery can handle, I'm going to want some serious amps to keep a lot of things charged and running. And I'm sure my neighbors will be coming with extension cords in hand to get a little juice.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Guest

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Guest » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:08 pm

Gas generators require regular maintenance and even then often don't work when they are needed.

I thought the OPs plan was to charge from the car not solar?

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by CapnLoki » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:46 pm

Guest wrote:Gas generators require regular maintenance and even then often don't work when they are needed.
My Honda has needed very little maintenance other then occasional oil changes over the last 10 years, and has started every time. They are more reliable than a snow blower or lawnmower. The point is that a small genset has usefulness in a variety of situations. And while a car can recharge a cpap battery, its a pain to use it for keeping a freezer cold or providing the power for a heating system. I used the genset this fall for running a hot water heater so my wife could take a hot shower!
Guest wrote:I thought the OPs plan was to charge from the car not solar?
The OP brought up the issue of solar power. I'm just pointing out that for emergency home backup, dollars spent on a small genset go a lot further then an overpriced solar panel designed for charging cell phones.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

User avatar
sleep_quest
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area - Peninsula

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by sleep_quest » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:11 pm

Guest wrote:I thought the OPs plan was to charge from the car not solar?
Actually...I started out with my little ol' powerpack thinking that would meet my needs for a short power outage, then realized I needed a longer term solution just in case and based on what I read here figured a deep cycle battery was the solution. Then you brought up being mobile, so I said 'heck yeah', and worked that in to my requirements. And now that I have a great system in place I'm curious about solar so that I don't have to be completely dependent on fuel to run my car to recharge my battery, again just in case...

As I'm evolving my back up power system is too.

I'm open to any and all suggestions as long as they are still plug and play...

Guest

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Guest » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:53 am

sleep_quest wrote:I'm open to any and all suggestions as long as they are still plug and play...
Well first let me say I don't think power generators are plug n play and a prob NOT what the avg sleep enthusiast wants to get involved in. And for that reason I think generator discussion would deserve its own thread.

Second let me say that anyone who has ever been involved in a power outage prob knows that the use of generators always results in deaths from carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning from improper use or installation. For that reason alone you will not find me sleeping while a generator is running.

Generators do have a place for alternate power but you have to plan out what you want to power and how much power is needed. You start out with the fridge and maybe a water heater and then *want* a hair dryer, the TV and stereo, then oh what about the lights and the stove. So it grows beyond the specs of this *portable* generator which turns out is not so portable and now have wires running every which way. In this case we have not even included a cpap, bipap, or any life saving equipment. Just the luxury items.

My suggestion would be to either have a professional installation or simply buy a motor home and sleep in that during a power outage. But the motor home (while a good option) comes with its own problems and expenses. See what a tangled web it weaves?

For *portable* generators you also need a place to store it and then place to use it at other than your garage. It takes time to get them out hooked up and working.

We have, had in recent yrs, some 3 and 5 day power outages. What I have found was the stuff in the fridge and freezer lasted just fine - as long as you leave them closed. The big things are running water (we have city water) if you have well water that might be another reason to have a generators or just use rain barrels for water to flush with.

We used solar led landscape lights in the house to see at night, they really do last all night. Candles and kerosene lanterns are just another fire hazard. The biggest part was the temp in the house would be down in the 50s in AM (nice for sleeping) but we were getting dressed and leaving once awake, so minor inconvenience. Eating away from home for breakfast and lunch and if we had dinner home we used the gas grill. I have tons of other camping equipment but never felt the need to use it.

When out you will see most places that sell gas have no power and those that do have extremely long lines until they run out of gas that is.

If I were to buy a generator *portable* or whole house it would be propane - propane (natural gas) generators require less maintenance and can sit unused for years without getting all gummed up from the unused gasoline. Tho you should have a gas bottle installed at the house esp. if in an earthquake region but even if not for unplanned problems the bottle is right there. Even a gas stove has proven useful during power outages.

I used two jump starters to alternate for sleep use. Portable yes but one lives right in my bedroom and has for years now. Most outages are so brief I manage to sleep right thru them. If you keep the batteries in the garage 1st you have to wake to go get them and hook things up by then you prob want to stay up to find out what is going on - that is where a battery power radio comes in or one of those solar/windup emergency radios.

The other option that comes to mind is to get a motel room tho you may have to drive a ways to find one that has power.

User avatar
CapnLoki
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm
Location: North East

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:28 am

Guest wrote: Second let me say that anyone who has ever been involved in a power outage prob knows that the use of generators always results in deaths from carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning from improper use or installation. For that reason alone you will not find me sleeping while a generator is running. ...
This is what I don't like about the anonymous "guest" postings. Earlier in this thread a different "guest" was ranting about how larger batteries don't have to be in protective boxes and how there's no risk from 50 amp supplies with naked battery clips, with comments like "Did you know that you can die at home from a fall down the stairs if you get out of bed?" and "I want y'all to know that I have already done everything I suggested here and still have all three fingers left".

This "guest" is terrified that he might mistakenly fire up his generator in his bedroom and kill himself, or that he won't be able to stop with just a small genset but will end up building a nuclear power plant in his back yard!

I'll admit that a small genset is not for everyone, but that was not my point. The OP asked if used Goal Zero with a 30 Watt panel is a good deal at $385, and I pointed out that it is quite limited as a home solution and the same money would buy a small genset that could be very useful. While the OP might feel an oil change every year or so (and we know most snowblowers and lawn mowers get an oil change every 5 years, if they're lucky) is beyond "plug and play," many readers will appreciate the value of the genset. If my power goes down, I lose heat and phone and internet service, and the cell phones will start dropping in a few hours; a small genset running on the back porch during the day can solve a number of problems. Having had a pipe burst during a winter storm outage, I'm happy I have some backup. I'm sorry "guest" had to endure a 50 degree morning; we had 10 below zero for a few days which was not fun.

BTW, my brother, who lives deep in the boonies, has a whole house propane generator, and I've generated half my power with solar while living aboard during the last 15 years, so I'm quite familiar with both of these systems; but I assumed that $10,000 solutions were not under discussion now.

If you read my posts you'll know I've many times advised a that large battery that can power a CPAP for a week or more. But if you have an outage that long, you'll have other issues that can't be solved with a small, overpriced solar panel.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Guest

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Guest » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:19 am

CapnLoki wrote:This is what I don't like about the anonymous "guest" postings. Earlier in this thread a different "guest" was ranting about how larger batteries don't have to be in protective boxes and how there's no risk from 50 amp supplies with naked battery clips, with comments like "Did you know that you can die at home from a fall down the stairs if you get out of bed?" and "I want y'all to know that I have already done everything I suggested here and still have all three fingers left".
This is a common ploy on forums when someone feels they are loosing a debate but you just like to argue. Why can't there just be a discussion? Tell me that.

IF I have said something that is not true tell me what it is. And you can just call me Johnny

I never said this...
CapnLoki wrote:This "guest" is terrified that he might mistakenly fire up his generator in his bedroom and kill himself, or that he won't be able to stop with just a small genset but will end up building a nuclear power plant in his back yard!
And if it helps you my earlier reply was to the OP not to you. It was evident by the quote...
sleep_quest wrote:I'm open to any and all suggestions as long as they are still plug and play...

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by palerider » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:48 am

CapnLoki wrote: This is what I don't like about the anonymous "guest" postings. Earlier in this thread a different "guest" was ranting about how larger batteries don't have to be in protective boxes and how there's no risk from 50 amp supplies with naked battery clips, with comments like "Did you know that you can die at home from a fall down the stairs if you get out of bed?" and "I want y'all to know that I have already done everything I suggested here and still have all three fingers left".

This "guest" is terrified that he might mistakenly fire up his generator in his bedroom and kill himself, or that he won't be able to stop with just a small genset but will end up building a nuclear power plant in his back yard!
what makes you think it's a different one?

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
sleep_quest
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area - Peninsula

Post by sleep_quest » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:31 pm

Soooo, about solar...
CapnLoki wrote:...when the outage extends for a week I don't want to rely on a little solar panel that doesn't work when its overcast and can only put out a trickle charge at best.
Maybe the solution is a small solar generator? Quiet and maintenance free yet powerful enough to provide emergency power for an extended period of time (provided the sun is out)?

My current plan is to get a second DC battery with the same specs as the one I have now. What kind of/size solar panels would I need to recharge each battery faster than a trickle? Ideally one battery would be in use while the other is charging so I wouldn't need them both at the same time. Or depending on what I am powering would I be better off if I use them in parallel in which case I may need to charge as I'm using them...???

I don't see myself buying a motor home so nix that idea... For that kind of money I would just install solar for my entire house.
Guest wrote:If I were to buy a generator *portable* or whole house it would be propane - propane (natural gas) generators require less maintenance and can sit unused for years without getting all gummed up from the unused gasoline. Tho you should have a gas bottle installed at the house esp. if in an earthquake region but even if not for unplanned problems the bottle is right there. Even a gas stove has proven useful during power outages.
Propane...by 'bottle' are you referring to those big grey 'pill shaped' looking things that are installed out in a yard, one of those small Coleman type bottles, a gas grill tank or something else entirely? We have natural gas powered appliances (water heater, stove top, dryer, furnace) and after an earthquake I know that we'd need to confirm there's no gas leak before relighting a pilot light for example. If you're talking about one of those pill things I'd imagine propane lines could possibly have leak issues too, correct?

Just throwing out ideas here...

User avatar
sleep_quest
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area - Peninsula

Re: My back up power set up questions

Post by sleep_quest » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:15 pm

raftergirl wrote:My quest for a smaller & lighter battery that will power my cpap on 2-3 night kayak touring trips does continue however.
I know you posted in one of the previous topics mentioning the Power Add Pilot Pro 32000mAh UPS, is that not a good solution to your quest for smaller and lighter battery power? If not would you mind explaining why? Inquiring minds want to know...

Based on the practical use detailed in this thread it sounds like it might meet your goal of 2-3 nights while only weighing 3-4 lbs.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97350&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... o&start=30

Guest

Re: My back up power set up questions UPDATE

Post by Guest » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:00 pm

I know CA has lots of earthquake codes in their buildings and construction and while I would imagine a bottle attached to the house, the pipe would be more flexible than something in the ground - I honestly think you would get a better answer from your gas supplier than anyone in a sleep apnea forum.

Just keep in mind the pipeline supplier may have a biased opinion of the bottle supplier.