CPAP natural un-selection.

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by palerider » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:58 pm

BlackSpinner wrote: The same was not true for older men.
nobody wants us creepy old men *sniff*

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Julie
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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by Julie » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:07 pm

People 'back then' ate way healthier than we do... they died from lack of antibiotics and other meds, plus lack of radiology and modern surgical techniques.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:42 pm

Refrigeration is credited for saving the most lives--before that, a large number died from food poisoning.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by Muse-Inc » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:02 am

There is that theory that because we eat now processed foods instead of gnawing on 'whole' foods we have under-developed jaws wiht narrow arches. Comes from the work of Potter and his cats and Weston Price if memory serves correctly. Pretty interesting reading.

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CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by sleepstar » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:17 am

Sleep apnea was first described almost two centuries ago, it's not a new thing

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by Kennerly » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:02 am

chunkyfrog wrote:Refrigeration is credited for saving the most lives--before that, a large number died from food poisoning.
Great point Chunky. Which reminds me... Is there still some of that chocolate cake left in the fridge? Ugh ... sorry gotta go now... I need to check on something in the kitchen...

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by andy5805 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:03 am

I get the feeling my comments on here are causing offence because a lot of people may be overweight - this is not my intention. To make it worse I'm not overweight, and I'm under 40 so the only strict qualifier for my sleep disorder is not the "stereotypical" qualifier for it -I know why I've got it though, my tongue is far too big, and I consider it a genetic defect, because it is, I have siblings without enormous tongues and they sleep fine without darth vader gear

so this led me to trying to reason what would happen if I were in another age before the assisted help. And I'm quite accurate in saying I'd do worse, and others like me would do worse

here's where I probably really offend people but again it's not my intention - but I am not really one for seeking approval all the time and generally prefer to give my true viewpoint, being fat - to some extent is a lifestyle choice. having a massive tongue is something you are born with and you can do nothing about, just as if you are born with another deformity. No this doesn't make me any better or any worse than one single person on here, but it does explain why people are saying I'm not logical - whereas if anything I'm ruthlessly logical.

When you look at OSA or worse get it, you start examining what you can do to change the odds back to a normal life, in this age the best thing for that is CPAP and I will encourage anyone with OSA to get on it as long as I am able to do so. But some things you can influence some things you cannot, genetics isn't something you can influence, you can only compensate for it with technology which is here today, not yesterday, being fat, today or yesterday , you can do something about by getting fit and stopping eating so much. This is all factual. If people want to get emotional because they're fat or otherwise, it will not sway my opinion that you can do something about OSA with technology but you can do something about being fat before any technology is required.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by andy5805 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:06 am

chunkyfrog wrote:Refrigeration is credited for saving the most lives--before that, a large number died from food poisoning.
refrigeration is a miracle it is true, but I bet any money if refrigeration was impossible to invent the people on earth left (if any ) would be super resistant to bacteria next to the people we have now who rely on fridges.

this is all I'm really saying - if a technology becomes instead of evolution, we must either tie our fortunes in with this technology because evolution then has no need to concentrate on its own fix does it?

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by andy5805 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:10 am

sleepstar wrote:Sleep apnea was first described almost two centuries ago, it's not a new thing
I know that, I never said it was new, what I mean is would you rather be that time 200 years ago, because believe me you would suffer like hell, or would you rather be here now?

from that, I wonder what it's like in the future, perhaps they'll cure it, with something like a nanotech version of MMA which can fix without the broken bones, who knows. Point I keep coming back to is OSA occurs to genetic abnormalities, or being morbidly obese, one you are born with the other is your own prerogative to fix or not fix.

fat deformed or both, we're in a good time for OSA next to 200 years ago where it must have been really , really difficult.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:03 am

andy5805 wrote:
sleepstar wrote:Sleep apnea was first described almost two centuries ago, it's not a new thing
I know that, I never said it was new, what I mean is would you rather be that time 200 years ago, because believe me you would suffer like hell, or would you rather be here now?

from that, I wonder what it's like in the future, perhaps they'll cure it, with something like a nanotech version of MMA which can fix without the broken bones, who knows. Point I keep coming back to is OSA occurs to genetic abnormalities, or being morbidly obese, one you are born with the other is your own prerogative to fix or not fix.

fat deformed or both, we're in a good time for OSA next to 200 years ago where it must have been really , really difficult.
OSA is due to the genetics which allow us to talk well - which IS a genetic abnormality in nature. Many genetic changes come with a negative side effect check out sickle cell anaemia - it gives you protection against malaria. Walking on two legs causes back problems. Big brains cause birthing difficulties.
refrigeration is a miracle it is true, but I bet any money if refrigeration was impossible to invent the people on earth left (if any ) would be super resistant to bacteria next to the people we have now who rely on fridges.
Humans spent several million years dieing of food poisoning and didn't develop resistance to botulism or salmonella or E.Coli during that time. Neither did they develop resistance to diphtheria or cholera before the creation of good sewage system and water treatments.


Oh and refrigeration was first developed to keep beer cold.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by Islandwoman » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:15 am

I graduated high school in 1961, many in my class married shortly after and, by the time I married at 22, had from one to four plus children. One married at fifteen and had twins within two years. In most earlier societies the majority of women began childbearing before the age of 20. That allows a new generation every 15 to 20 years. Human beings are genetically programed to reproduce as soon as possible(remember hormones?) There was never an opportunity to develop apnea if one died at 30+. The same goes for Alzheimer's etc. I am glad I have lived long enough to still be here even with a few health issues that may have killed me in earlier days.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by palerider » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:23 am

andy5805 wrote: here's where I probably really offend people but again it's not my intention - but I am not really one for seeking approval all the time and generally prefer to give my true viewpoint, being fat - to some extent is a lifestyle choice. having a massive tongue is something you are born with and you can do nothing about, just as if you are born with another deformity. No this doesn't make me any better or any worse than one single person on here, but it does explain why people are saying I'm not logical - whereas if anything I'm ruthlessly logical.

When you look at OSA or worse get it, you start examining what you can do to change the odds back to a normal life, in this age the best thing for that is CPAP and I will encourage anyone with OSA to get on it as long as I am able to do so. But some things you can influence some things you cannot, genetics isn't something you can influence, you can only compensate for it with technology which is here today, not yesterday, being fat, today or yesterday , you can do something about by getting fit and stopping eating so much. This is all factual. If people want to get emotional because they're fat or otherwise, it will not sway my opinion that you can do something about OSA with technology but you can do something about being fat before any technology is required.
oh man. perhaps you're not one, but you certainly sound like an ignorant jerk.

"I'm young and fit and you're old and fat, I'm smart, and you're just angry because you're not young and fit! stop eating and go exercise!"

ok, mr logicial, I've got to say that certainly SOUNDS stupid, and that you can't see past your bigotry to recognize the irrefutable point that sleep apnea has virtually nothing to do with natural selection since it very rarely kills before the genes are passed on.

logic your way out of that.

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Last edited by palerider on Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by palerider » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:28 am

Islandwoman wrote:I graduated high school in 1961, many in my class married shortly after and, by the time I married at 22, had from one to four plus children. One married at fifteen and had twins within two years. In most earlier societies the majority of women began childbearing before the age of 20. That allows a new generation every 15 to 20 years. Human beings are genetically programed to reproduce as soon as possible(remember hormones?) There was never an opportunity to develop apnea if one died at 30+.
quite right, way back when, children and teenagers weren't coddled and repressed like they are today.

they went to work as soon as they could, and once they hit puberty, they were ready to go and start their own families, nature, not arbitrary laws determined when someone was 'a man' or 'a woman'. digging up dead people to flesh out one's family tree does bring home a number of facts, among them, people married, and procreated YOUNG.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by archangle » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:35 am

Modern society is probably causing us to "devolve" in many ways.

Unfortunately, the only way to do anything about it is to "cull" the weak or do genetic engineering. The culling could be death before reproduction or stopping the "weak" from reproducing.

Because of what Nazi Germany and others have done, any form of trying to improve the genetics of humans is politically and socially acceptable. Any form of this will probably bring back memories when eugenics meant breeding blonde, blue-eyed babies, or was otherwise misused.

If you want to breed apnea out of the human population, it's probably doable in theory. Just sterilize those who have sleep apnea. Maybe sterilize their kids, since apnea often doesn't show up until after they've already reproduce. I don't support this idea, and I don't think it will ever be politically acceptable in any society that I would want to live in.

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Re: CPAP natural un-selection.

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:47 am

Kennerly wrote:[... Is there still some of that chocolate cake left in the fridge? Ugh ... sorry gotta go now... I need to check on something in the kitchen...
A half dozen chocolate cake balls with pudding inside--but DH just headed for our kitchen . . .
Maybe he's jonesing for a Polish dog with cheddar and Jalapeño. (The game's on)

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