Ffm. What are your suggestions

library lady wrote:I have some suggestions for you, but first let me tell you that many people here have had to try numerous masks over a period of months before finding THE ONE. Others are fortunate to find the right mask fairly quickly. A mask that works and is comfortable for one person will not work for all. Some people can't stand FF masks, others can't stand pillows, etc.

I started cpap on the Quattro Air, the one the DME gave me. I couldn't control the leaks, even after I learned that there is a fine line between "too tight" and "too loose" on the straps. Too much either way will make leaking worse. After I came to the forum I learned about mask liners. One poster has already mentioned the Pad-A-Cheek liners, but there are also RemZzz liners that you can get online from https://www.cpap.com, and many DMEs have them as well.

I first tried the P-A-C liners, and didn't like the feel of the fabric against my face so tried RemZzzs, and they made a huge difference for me! I slept through the night without being bothered by leaks. Either liner has the advantage of protecting your face from sores or other irritation, as well the ability to soak up moisture and oils from your skin that prevent a good seal. Also they "quiet" the leaks that persist, which contributes to better sleep for both user and bed partner. I now make my own liners out of t-shirts that I wash and reuse.

These days, I rarely wake up from leaks. Most nights my leaks do not go above the red line in Sleepyhead.
When they do, they almost never wake me up. Several months ago after the F10 came out, I purchased it and I like it much better as it doesn't have a forehead arm and strap and that makes it more comfortable. The cushion on the Quattro Air and the F10 are the same. Someone here mentioned that the sizing was different, but with my medium masks of each, they are exactly the same size. Maybe another size has different sizing of the cushions, I don't know.

If you decide to go the liner route You could try to send a Private Message to: Becky at RemZzzs memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62662

She was so nice to offer free samples back in January of this year. Not sure if she still is offering them now or not.
It may save you some $$ and try it before you buy.

I wish you well

The majority of us have tried many masks both at the start, and over time. It's almost a given and it's the single most difficult or at least problematic aspect of the process. Finding the right mask is crucial, finding the 'ideal' one may never happen, but you should be able to find a couple, likely a few, that will do the job well and be comfortable, if not the first night, at least pretty soon. You need to be flexible about having to find one and working with what's available (which is really a very large variety). If your mask doesn't fit or work for you, find others... you can see the largest choice at the best prices on Cpap.com... with great detail, graphics, reviews good and bad, and you have all of us to ask for info and get feedback from (but it doesn't mean you have to buy from them). Don't let some random mask handed to you by someone keep you from doing what you need for yourself.

Having tried everything under the sun I have come up with two conclusions (for me). First, the mask needs to be a full face mask or the air escapes out of my mouth. I am not prepared to tape my mouth closed. Secondly, the mask must have a forehead brace. The first mask I tried allowed me to sleep (I was VERY tired) and then I awoke my nose was purple from cutoff of blood flow. Forehead brace is a must. Then I went through the list and the first FFM I came across that met the conditions was the QUATTRO. I bought one ($350 in Canada - $95 stateside) and having learned how to put it on PROPERLY immediately fell asleep and slept like a log all night. I have purchased THREE more and I rotate them and wash all four once a month in odourless soap and then Control III disinfectant (what the hospitals use) and rinse VERY well. Having spent three weeks on total life support the result of acute bacterial pneumonia I leave the choice up to anyone that wants or hears my opinion on CPAP cleanliness - but have firsthand experience that "cleanliness IS INDEED next to godliness" especially when it comes to CPAP and blowing all sorts of crap into your lungs every night. KEEP IT CLEAN. You don't need to get crazy about it but realize that bacteria will grow quite well in the crevices of your mask (etc) especially if you use a heated hose and humidifier. And trust me when I tell you that you do NOT want acute bacterial pneumonia. They wanted to unplug me a couple of times but my wife refused and eventually I beat the infection but was in the hospital for three months plus.... of which 3 weeks was total life support in lala land. I am also a gun collector - and although many people leave their handgun(s) around, loaded and unlocked, I DO NOT. Mine are all unloaded and stored in a one ton safe. Ammo in a separate safe. Every handgun has a trigger lock on it. Do I need to do this? Well, there are millions of folks that do not and have never had a problem. I choose to be careful. And to protect my investment. Each to his/her own. But there is a grey line for common sense in both CPAP mask cleanliness and handgun safety, as we have seen over the past few years. Heck, we even have a safe in the back of our SUV (Harbour Freight) - in which we stow BOTH our CPAP gear and handgun(s) if we are transporting them (either).

Try the Quattro and make the final adjustments while you are laying down. I think you will like it. No leaks and no flapping lips at night.

I slept last night with nasal pillows and a head strap. Didn't get any air blowing out of my mouth. I may use it until I find a replacement ffm. Our keep using if it doesn't leak anymore through my mouth. The nasal pillows are more comfortable than ffm

I had some problems with leaks with my FFM as well, until I learned two things, both from users on this forum.

1. The mask works best when not tightened. It should fit loosely on the face. If you're sitting up, it will (and should) leak. When you turn on the air, the mask will balloon out, and try to seal around the face. Repeat, it should be leaking at this point. If it's not, you have it adjusted way too tight. I know, it sounds counter-intuitive. Try it. Then, you lay down, your head molds into the pillow, and the magical silicon seals around your face. (Even with my full face beard.) This may only work for side sleeping, which I do.

2. The pillow that has worked best for me (so far) is the five layer foam, with cut outs on both sides and front. It allows my face and neck to be supported, and the mask to extend out past the edge of the pillow and not be compressed. Be advised, when I turn over, the mask does leak for a few seconds while I'm rotating. When my head again hits the pillow, the mask seals nicely, no leaks.

If you're really serious about wanting a good fit with a FFM, I recommend you try these. Can't hurt, and doesn't cost much.

Just my two cents worth.

I'll try again. I've had the mask from loose all the way to tight and everywhere between. Nothing seems to stop it from leaking into my eyes

Greg Riddle wrote:I'll try again. I've had the mask from loose all the way to tight and everywhere between. Nothing seems to stop it from leaking into my eyes

How about filling in your profile and/or telling us what your machine settings are (specifically pressure and Ramp in this case)?

There could be a multitude of reasons why your mask is leaking. Wrong size or adjusted at lower pressure (if you're using Ramp or Auto with a range of pressures), to name a couple.


Den

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I updated the equipment profile

Greg Riddle wrote:I updated the equipment profile

Thanks. That helps eliminate some possibilities.


Den

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I did some experimenting. Nothing I did stopped the large size mask from leaking. I tried a medium sized Quattro fx mask. It doesn't leak very much just a little when the pillow pushes on it. The problem is the medium doesn't fit my mouth. The seal tests on my lips at the corners of my mouth. It is very irritating. It feels like I have poison ivy on my lips. The reason I need a ffm is because I have bad allergies and congestion is a never ending battle. However I'm at a point where my allergy shots are starting to work. So the congestion is not so hard to deal with. I'll keep trying to use the nasal pillows as long as air doesn't leak through my mouth. I do want to try to find a ffn that works

I have an appointment with dme tomorrow. Hopefully I can find something that works

That didn't go well. Every mask I tried leaked

Greg Riddle wrote:That didn't go well. Every mask I tried leaked

I am sorry to hear that but not surprised. That has been my experience with full face masks in spite of trying all the recommended tips.

Hopefully, your allergy shots will keep improving things. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

49er

Greg Riddle wrote:That didn't go well. Every mask I tried leaked

Greg, every mask WILL leak. Some leaks are inevitable and as the Respironics online videos are fond of explaining "not all leaks need to be corrected". The xPAP machines are designed to adjust to and fully cope with small to moderate leaks. Leaks are annoying and possibly noisy, but if you can sleep with occasional small leaks, the machines can still adjust to deliver the full pressure needed.

It has taken me about 5-6 FFMs to find some that work better than others and are comfortable -- none are perfect and they all still leak at times, and they all need to be adjusted very, very carefully. Adjustment and proper fitting/sizing do more than anything. Frankly, you could likely adjust to almost any mask sold, even the QFX, with patience, proper fitting, sizing and adjustment. -- And cleaning! A big problem with FFM leaks is that your head position and jaw position changes the fit of the straps -- tuck your head down and the fit loosens and leaks can open up. Crane your neck while sleeping and the whole contraption tightens up. That can all cause leaks or uncomfortable fit. You just need to adjust to it.

If you want a good starter 'training wheels' mask, you could always go with the old fashioned Quattro. It is old, bulky and ugly but is extremely comfortable, quiet and uses a cushion design that makes an excellent seal for many people, even with 'jaw drop' while sleeping and neck movement -- that is, when properly adjusted, sized, cleaned, maintained.... etc.

Once you master the Quattro, then you should feel more comfortable trying newer, better looking low-profile masks like the Quattro Air, the Respironics Amara (GEL) or the new, low profile replacement for the old QFX, the new ResMed AirFit 10. The Fisher Paykel Simplus is another good, low profile option. Or just go with the new ones to start and see if they work ok for you....

If you want some great tips on mask recommendations and fitting look at the videos from the LankyLefty on youtube. Great resource for masks etc.

Good luck!

I do understand that the masks can leak. The leaks I don't have a problem with are the ones that are on my chin. They don't bother me. The leaks I can't get used to are the leaks that are blowing air into my eyes. It is constantly waking me up. every mask so far has leaked air into my eyes. The medium size quatro fx doesn't leak but the edges of the seal sit on my lips and constantly rub my lips. The large quatro fx fits my mouth but leaks into my eyes. Hopefully my allergies will get better with more shots and I can go back to nasal pillows.
I have another appointment next Friday with dme. She said she offs going to get some more masks for mgr to try