Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
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Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
If someone (not me) was titrated at home with an Auto machine, how can you tell whether there are central apneas under treatment? I know Respironics will flag "clear airway" events, but what about Fisher & Paykel?
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
that depends on which machine it is...sawinglogz wrote:If someone (not me) was titrated at home with an Auto machine, how can you tell whether there are central apneas under treatment? I know Respironics will flag "clear airway" events, but what about Fisher & Paykel?
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
My reading of the InfoSmart software is that apneas, hypopneas and flow limitation events are reported depending on the exact model.
I couldn't find any reference to central or clear airway apneas being reported separately.
Here is a documentation link.
infoSmart
I couldn't find any reference to central or clear airway apneas being reported separately.
Here is a documentation link.
infoSmart
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
Icon+ Autopalerider wrote:that depends on which machine it is...
I don't see a row for CA in SleepyHead, so I'm guessing the machine doesn't flag CA events itself?
Is there any other way to see them in the data that is there? (Flow waveform, pressure adjustments, etc.)
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
jedimark says he's not seen anything that looks like a central/clear airway flag in the data, though he hasn't seen any data from the latest firmware revisions.sawinglogz wrote:Icon+ Autopalerider wrote:that depends on which machine it is...
I don't see a row for CA in SleepyHead, so I'm guessing the machine doesn't flag CA events itself?
Is there any other way to see them in the data that is there? (Flow waveform, pressure adjustments, etc.)
loan 'em your PRS1
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
So if they were suffering from complex apnea, how would you tell?
Do the CAs get incorrectly marked as OAs?
Do the CAs get incorrectly marked as OAs?
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
By which machine are you referring to? Incorrect flags are always a possibility but in general with the PR S1 and the S9 it's fairly accurate.sawinglogz wrote:Do the CAs get incorrectly marked as OAs?
With a machine that didn't flag centrals? There's not much to go on. We don't know if the Icon would flag centrals as OAs. I don't even know how their algorithm in auto mode works...does it ignore centrals and not increase the pressure which might give a clue.sawinglogz wrote:So if they were suffering from complex apnea, how would you tell?
Long time ago with the Respironics M series machines I saw reports from people who ended up going to ASV and it was the hyponea count that was whacko...not the OA count.
If someone is really concerned about complex sleep apnea then they need to use a machine that will flag centrals for sure and is known to be accurate....that would be the PR S1 or ResMed S9.
That's one of the reasons we stick with these 2 main brands of machines when we recommend machines....they cover the "what ifs" that sometimes might pop up. Like "what if this person ends up with Comp SA?'
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
op was asking about a friends icon autoPugsy wrote:By which machine are you referring to? Incorrect flags are always a possibility but in general with the PR S1 and the S9 it's fairly accurate.sawinglogz wrote:Do the CAs get incorrectly marked as OAs?
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
perhaps a little more background, and some images would help.sawinglogz wrote:So if they were suffering from complex apnea, how would you tell?
Do the CAs get incorrectly marked as OAs?
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
I assumed so but since the suggestion to loan the friend the PR S1 ASV machine had been made I just wanted to make sure.palerider wrote:op was asking about a friends icon auto
I flunked mind reading 101 in college.
I don't know enough about the Icon auto algorithm to make any guesses as to what it reports or how it functions or might flag Centrals should there be a large number of them present.
I prefer to stick to tried and true and they aren't always perfect.
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
I asked JM about it, and he said he hasn't seen any indication in the icon auto data stream of any kind of central flags, that's why I thought maybe set the asv to cpap mode (if it does that) and loan it to the friend for a napPugsy wrote:I assumed so but since the suggestion to loan the friend the PR S1 ASV machine had been made I just wanted to make sure.palerider wrote:op was asking about a friends icon auto
I flunked mind reading 101 in college.
I don't know enough about the Icon auto algorithm to make any guesses as to what it reports or how it functions or might flag Centrals should there be a large number of them present.
I prefer to stick to tried and true and they aren't always perfect.
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
Remember that even if it doesn't list "central apnea" in the results, almost any data capable machine will detect them as an apnea, it just can't tell it's central vs. obstructive.
Isn't there one of the ASV machines that won't ever flag a central when it's in ASV mode?
I find when I look at my Flow Rate waveforms, that my centrals tend to start on the end of an exhale, and obstructives start at the end of an inhale. I don't know if this is usually the case.
Isn't there one of the ASV machines that won't ever flag a central when it's in ASV mode?
I find when I look at my Flow Rate waveforms, that my centrals tend to start on the end of an exhale, and obstructives start at the end of an inhale. I don't know if this is usually the case.
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Re: Detecting central apneas w/o sleep lab?
the s9 adapt won't let you *have* a central.archangle wrote:Isn't there one of the ASV machines that won't ever flag a central when it's in ASV mode?
as the flow starts to taper off, before it even hits zero, the adapt is ramping up the pressure support to keep your minutevent to target levels.
you can see, comparing the flow, and the mask pressure, how mask pressure increases and flow continues.
here's someone trying to have centrals on an asv:
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.