Next Steps..

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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SleepyEyes21
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Re: Next Steps..

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:44 pm

Okay - sleepier than ever now after reading tons more After reading through robysue's breakdown between the ResMed S9 AutoSet & the PR 60 System One Auto CPAP, I am leaning towards the PR. I see my doc in a.m. to get my test results, then have an appt. at local (reputable) DME to look at used machines- they have both brands & models. They package their used units with heated humidifiers, and sell for between $300-$350.00. DME sells all their masks at $185 (I know - outrageous), so most likely won't buy mask there.

Questions: 1) Do most masks fit most hoses?; 2) do I need to ask for a specific PR System One Auto & Flex option?; 3) Does software come with these two machines, or is that something separate to download?; 4) Are you supposed to use distilled water for these humidifiers?; 5) Any suggestions for a good full face mask for a newbie?; 6) Not understanding why you need heated hoses with a heated humidifier- is a heated hose needed to reduce rainout?; 7) Will a hose cover reduce rainout as effectively as a heated hose?

Many thanks once again!

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Pugsy
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Re: Next Steps..

Post by Pugsy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:24 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:1) Do most masks fit most hoses?
Yes. I can't think of any mask that won't fit any hose.

SleepyEyes21 wrote:2) do I need to ask for a specific PR System One Auto & Flex option?
I would suggest that you get the PR S1 Auto CPAP model 560 as it is heated hose capable. You may not need it but it would be handy to have it available if needed later. Wintertime especially.
If they don't have a model 560...the 550 will do but we can't use the special heated hose with it. We can use a stand alone heated hose (more on that later if needed) or use a hose cozy.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:3) Does software come with these two machines, or is that something separate to download?;
No software comes with any machine. You will need to download it but that's easy and free. SleepyHead works with the PR S1 and ResMed machines. If you want Respironics Encore just send me a note...same if you end up with ResMed and want ResScan.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:5) Any suggestions for a good full face mask for a newbie?;
Can't help you there.... I have never used a full face mask. It's a crap shoot though. With all masks it's a one man's treasure is another man's trash. Just because I might love a mask doesn't mean it will work for you. Heck you might end up hating what we think is the best mask out there. I might have a new full face mask you can have to help you save some money. I need to find out what I have and the size. More on that later once I dig out the stash box.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:6) Not understanding why you need heated hoses with a heated humidifier- is a heated hose needed to reduce rainout?;
Read my posts in this thread...number 2 and 3 I think about condensation and I think you will have a better idea why the heated hoses come in handy.
viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html
It all depends on how cool your bedroom is as to chances of rain out in the hose or the mask.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:Will a hose cover reduce rainout as effectively as a heated hose?
Maybe, maybe not. I still get rain out in the mask sometimes (I talk about condensation in the mask in that thread) even with a heated hose. Hose cozies help and for some they are enough but they also add weight to the hose which can be annoying.

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SleepyEyes21
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Re: Next Steps..

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:40 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:2) do I need to ask for a specific PR System One Auto & Flex option?
I would suggest that you get the PR S1 Auto CPAP model 560 as it is heated hose capable. You may not need it but it would be handy to have it available if needed later. Wintertime especially.
If they don't have a model 560...the 550 will do but we can't use the special heated hose with it. We can use a stand alone heated hose (more on that later if needed) or use a hose cozy.

Thanks for the suggestion here, Pugsy. I called cpap.com and asked the rep about heated hoses. I would prefer an 8 foot hose, and the rep said they don't sell that size in heated, and he's not sure if heateds come in that size at all. I will try to get a PR 560 so I can have the option though. I also found out that cpap.com has a 'universal' heated hose (Comfort Line brand.)
SleepyEyes21 wrote:3) Does software come with these two machines, or is that something separate to download?;
No software comes with any machine. You will need to download it but that's easy and free. SleepyHead works with the PR S1 and ResMed machines. If you want Respironics Encore just send me a note...same if you end up with ResMed and want ResScan.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:5) Any suggestions for a good full face mask for a newbie?;
Can't help you there.... I have never used a full face mask. It's a crap shoot though. With all masks it's a one man's treasure is another man's trash. Just because I might love a mask doesn't mean it will work for you. Heck you might end up hating what we think is the best mask out there. I might have a new full face mask you can have to help you save some money. I need to find out what I have and the size. More on that later once I dig out the stash box.

Wow! You are so sweet Sir NoddinOff posted in another thread about the Airfit F10, and it looks great, but is expensive. I'm going to check out Ebay here in a bit.
SleepyEyes21 wrote:6) Not understanding why you need heated hoses with a heated humidifier- is a heated hose needed to reduce rainout?;
Read my posts in this thread...number 2 and 3 I think about condensation and I think you will have a better idea why the heated hoses come in handy.
viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html
It all depends on how cool your bedroom is as to chances of rain out in the hose or the mask.

Will read, thanks, and cpap guy gave me a bit of info also. Due to my preferred length, I'm thinking of just going with a cozy and see how that works for now. Question: if I don't get a heated hose, then is there a reason to get a heated humidifier?
SleepyEyes21 wrote:Will a hose cover reduce rainout as effectively as a heated hose?
Maybe, maybe not. I still get rain out in the mask sometimes (I talk about condensation in the mask in that thread) even with a heated hose. Hose cozies help and for some they are enough but they also add weight to the hose which can be annoying.[/quote]

Again, many, many thanks for all of your help!

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Pugsy
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Re: Next Steps..

Post by Pugsy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:54 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:Question: if I don't get a heated hose, then is there a reason to get a heated humidifier?
Yes. The heated humidifier is what adds moisture to the air you breathe. While there are some people who do well without a humidifier or with it turned off without heat...most people need some added moisture. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If my humidifier broke and I didn't have a spare...I would simply sleep without the blower because I already found out what happens when my nasal mucosa get too dried out. It was a miserable 3 days. Think the worst sinus infection you have ever had and that's about what it was like. I know it was the lack of moisture because I have had it happen 3 times when forget to add water to the chamber and it runs dry early in the evening and I don't wake up.

Also...in the winter time the air in our bedrooms is typically a lot cooler. You can get what I call "ice cube nose" even with the heated humidifier on 5 with the PR S1 550 machine. I know because I had it happen to me. This was with a hose cozy (before I got the heated hose machine) and my nose was so cold it woke me up multiple times. I like my bedroom on the cold side in winter...now if you like 76 degrees in the winter it may not bother you.

I like cool air going up my nose in the summer and warm air in the winter.

If you end up getting a stand alone heated hose for some reason....get the Hybernite 2300....I have used it. It works great.

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Re: Next Steps..

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:13 pm

Pugsy wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:Question: if I don't get a heated hose, then is there a reason to get a heated humidifier?
Yes. The heated humidifier is what adds moisture to the air you breathe. While there are some people who do well without a humidifier or with it turned off without heat...most people need some added moisture. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If my humidifier broke and I didn't have a spare...I would simply sleep without the blower because I already found out what happens when my nasal mucosa get too dried out. It was a miserable 3 days. Think the worst sinus infection you have ever had and that's about what it was like. I know it was the lack of moisture because I have had it happen 3 times when forget to add water to the chamber and it runs dry early in the evening and I don't wake up.

Also...in the winter time the air in our bedrooms is typically a lot cooler. You can get what I call "ice cube nose" even with the heated humidifier on 5 with the PR S1 550 machine. I know because I had it happen to me. This was with a hose cozy (before I got the heated hose machine) and my nose was so cold it woke me up multiple times. I like my bedroom on the cold side in winter...now if you like 76 degrees in the winter it may not bother you.

I like cool air going up my nose in the summer and warm air in the winter.

If you end up getting a stand alone heated hose for some reason....get the Hybernite 2300....I have used it. It works great.
Okay - will ask for a heated capable, at least. The cpap guy told me that the heated humidifier warms up the air and then travels through the hose, and that you need a heated hose to keep the air at the right temp.

Thank you!

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Re: Next Steps..

Post by palerider » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:21 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:The cpap guy told me that the heated humidifier warms up the air and then travels through the hose, and that you need a heated hose to keep the air at the right temp.
aaaand, that's why you should always check what they say to see if they're confused, or lying. trust pugsy.

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Re: Next Steps..

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:28 pm

palerider wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:The cpap guy told me that the heated humidifier warms up the air and then travels through the hose, and that you need a heated hose to keep the air at the right temp.
aaaand, that's why you should always check what they say to see if they're confused, or lying. trust pugsy.
Thanks PR - will do!

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Re: Next Steps..

Post by Pugsy » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:31 am

SleepyEyes21 wrote:The cpap guy told me that the heated humidifier warms up the air and then travels through the hose, and that you need a heated hose to keep the air at the right temp.
Well....he's technically correct...but maybe could use a little further explanation.

Air holds water...we all know that and we know that warmer air will hold more water and when warmer air cools to a point it can no longer hold the water then that's condensation.

Heated humidifiers warm the water which in turns warms the air so it can hold more water as it goes up the long hose to your face.
Some people don't need the extra moisture and use a humidifier that could heat if they wanted but they don't want any extra moisture so they turn the humidifier heater off and just let the air blow over the water in the chamber and pick up just a little moisture. We call that passover humidity.
Some people don't even attach the humidifier. My nose cringes when I even type those words. but I know they and their nose are very happy with doing that and there's nothing wrong with it. It's all about each individuals on preference in terms of how much moisture in the air that their nose is happy with. There is no right or wrong....there's just what works.

Having the heated hose allows greater customization to both the air temp coming to the face and the moisture levels. It's all about patient comfort and comfort is very important in terms of letting us sleep and getting good sleep is the primary objective here. Yes, it also helps reduce condensation in the hose or mask but not always. Condensation won't hurt you but it's highly annoying to get a cold shower of spray out the vent holes onto your face or hear a train going through your hose and mask caused by 2 teaspoons of water. It's totally amazing how much noise that tiny bit of water can make. Plus it totally messes with your sleep and that defeats the primary objective when you wake up (and spouse wakes up from the train noise) and you have to wipe off the cold shower and get the train noise out of the hose. Been there and done that many times prior to having a heated hose.

These heated hoses don't heat things up to the point where it feels like a sauna...well some people might say it feels like it but it really isn't all that hot . Even ResMed's climateline will only go to 86 degrees. Respironics will only go to 14 degrees above bedroom temp.

If someone likes a warmer bedroom temp...like 76 degrees then a heated hose probably isn't going to be needed. The air going into the machine is already fairly warm and the air outside the long hose isn't going to cause as much air cooling in the hose or mask as would happen with a cooler bedroom temp. 76 degree bedroom temp would seriously be too hot for me to sleep well in. When I go visit my daughter at Christmas I have to open the bedroom windows to cool off the ambient room temp so I can sleep. She keeps her house around 72 degrees in the winter at night. I can't sleep like that.

For 3 years I didn't have a heated hose. Back when I first started therapy in 2009 the only heated hose available was the Aussie heated hose for $150 which was a stand alone heated hose and I just wouldn't pay that much so I cobbled my own hose cozy together and hated winter because of the cold air going to my nose hurt my nose (with setting maxed out) and the rain out in the nasal pillows would give me a cold shower in the middle of the night. When I bought my first heated hose (the Hybernite 2300 stand alone heated hose) it was the best money I ever spent. When I got my S9 with the Climateline heated hose I was in heaven. Then Respironics came out with their heated hose machine to compete with the Climateline.

Is it critical to have a heated hose. Of course not. We all got by without them for many years when they weren't available but they do make things easier for some people and we don't ever know who those people are until they get a machine and use it in their home and see what their humidity needs are and what their own bedroom temps are and how things go.
Hose cozies add weight to the long hose and with these new ultra light masks that can be a disadvantage as it pulls on the mask.
There are some ultra thin hose cozies that don't add the weight but they also don't offer much insulation.

I don't know if you will even need the features that the heated hose will offer but you might and for that reason I say at least have a heated hose capable machine even if you don't get the heated hose at the moment. Always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If you end up getting a ResMed S9...I think I have a spare Climateline hose you can have that someone donated a while back. If your DME has a S9 full data machine and to add a humidifier would cost $150....I have one that I can sell for $75 to include shipping. I picked it up locally when someone bailed out on therapy after a week and returned the blower but couldn't return the humidifier and you can have the heated hose for free.

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Re: Next Steps..

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:36 pm

Pugsy - thank you for your very detailed explanation on the heated hose/ humidifier topic! This is all great info, and is helping me to decide what machine and related 'parts' I want to have. Just trying to find the correct machine is half the battle at this point for me

Thanks also for your offer of the climate hose, but I am really leaning toward the PR S1 at the moment. I plan to go without the heated hose first, but want a machine that gives me that option, so trying to find the 560 or 550. Since I live in Florida, we have plenty of humidity in the warm months, and my AC is set at 76 for both summer and winter mostly.

I will start another thread to let you all know my results from doc visit and DME yesterday.

Thanks so much!

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