Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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chunkyfrog
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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:10 pm

Another "solution" (don't laugh, this is real):
http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/02/video- ... ot-pillow/

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by palerider » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:25 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Another "solution" (don't laugh, this is real):
http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/02/video- ... ot-pillow/
WHY ARE THE JAPANESE THINGS SO MUCH CUTER THAN OURS???? WHY????

also, why do they have both feet on the floor? is that some victorian kinda thing, like the old movies where if two people were in bed, they each had to have one foot on the floor???

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:10 pm

palerider wrote:

also, why do they have both feet on the floor? is that some victorian kinda thing, like the old movies where if two people were in bed, they each had to have one foot on the floor???

Look how very long his feet are. He put them on the floor hoping they would be off camera.

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:28 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Another "solution" (don't laugh, this is real):
<link removed> video-anti-sleep-apnea-robot-pillow/
How many times would you be using something that was smacking you in the head/face to wake you up?
Doesn't look too comfy sleeping on your back either.

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archangle
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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by archangle » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:32 pm

This is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work.

However, I can't cite any good studies, so maybe there is a chance.

I think the consensus is that the brain simply can't be trained to stop apnea other than waking up. Think about it. Apneacs stop breathing, stress builds up, O2 drops, CO2 rises, and the brain eventually wakes up, at least partly, and prevents outright asphyxiation, but you still have periods of low O2, and sleep disturbance.

You would think that something like an apnea detector/shock collar would eventually train your brain to not relax the "anti-apnea" muscles that let you breathe while awake, but fail when you're asleep.

Unfortunately, it seems you can't train the brain to do this. At least that seems to be what the experts think. Given that repeated suffocation during sleep doesn't seem to train the brain to keep the airway open or keep breathing, maybe that makes sense.

I'm not sure anyone's done an actual large scale study of this. Maybe someone should do one with airflow sensors and shock collars.

There are some gadgets being developed that try to stimulate certain nerves to cause your muscles to flex and prevent obstructive apnea.

I don't think I've heard of anything that tries to electrically fix central apnea, but maybe there could be some sort of "tickle the brain" implant that could do that. Either directly stimulate a certain part of the brain, or tickle some of the nerve cells in your lung to send some sort of feedback to the brain. A further step would be to directly stimulate the breathing muscles, but that seems to be way down the road in terms of technology.

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:40 pm

--and people have actually tried to train "apnea dogs", purportedly for use by people unable to use cpap.
Lots of luck with that; when does the dog sleep?

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by Goofproof » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:50 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:--and people have actually tried to train "apnea dogs", purportedly for use by people unable to use cpap.
Lots of luck with that; when does the dog sleep?
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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by GMEO » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:02 am

archangle wrote:This is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work.

However, I can't cite any good studies, so maybe there is a chance.

I think the consensus is that the brain simply can't be trained to stop apnea other than waking up. Think about it. Apneacs stop breathing, stress builds up, O2 drops, CO2 rises, and the brain eventually wakes up, at least partly, and prevents outright asphyxiation, but you still have periods of low O2, and sleep disturbance.

You would think that something like an apnea detector/shock collar would eventually train your brain to not relax the "anti-apnea" muscles that let you breathe while awake, but fail when you're asleep.

Unfortunately, it seems you can't train the brain to do this. At least that seems to be what the experts think. Given that repeated suffocation during sleep doesn't seem to train the brain to keep the airway open or keep breathing, maybe that makes sense.

I'm not sure anyone's done an actual large scale study of this. Maybe someone should do one with airflow sensors and shock collars.

There are some gadgets being developed that try to stimulate certain nerves to cause your muscles to flex and prevent obstructive apnea.

I don't think I've heard of anything that tries to electrically fix central apnea, but maybe there could be some sort of "tickle the brain" implant that could do that. Either directly stimulate a certain part of the brain, or tickle some of the nerve cells in your lung to send some sort of feedback to the brain. A further step would be to directly stimulate the breathing muscles, but that seems to be way down the road in terms of technology.
That thing you describe right before your last sentence is already being done: http://www.livescience.com/39867-pacema ... apnea.html (as posted by someone previously in this thread).

Your post is very interesting and I tend to agree with most of it, but I'm still curious to see more concrete studies on it. The brain is very complex and extremely adaptable. Just think of these types of fields:
Sensory Augmentation
Building upon the research conducted on sensory substitution, investigations into the possibility of augmenting the body's sensory apparatus are now beginning. The intention is to extend the body's ability to sense aspects of the environment that are not normally perceivable by the body in its natural state.
Active work in this direction is being conducted by, among others, the e-sense project of the Open University and Edinburgh University, and the feelSpace project of the University of Osnabrück.
The findings of research into sensory augmentation (as well as sensory substitution in general) that investigate the emergence of perceptual experience (qualia) from the activity of neurons have implications for the understanding of consciousness.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution

So intuitively I would agree to your train of thought, but man. I'd just love to see something actually confirming that this brain training idea is or is just not possible to help against central sleep apnea.
Last edited by GMEO on Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by GMEO » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:06 am

chunkyfrog wrote:Another "solution" (don't laugh, this is real):
http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/02/video- ... ot-pillow/
This is actually very close to what I mean! Maybe with an overly high "cuteness" factor and the finger doll with a milkbottle (lol, what is that even?!) as a heart rate sensor would be in the way when trying to sleep. But yeah! I knew some other person must've gotten the same kind of idea and I guess there must be more, just haven't found them yet

thanks!

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Re: Idea for a monitoring device (does this exist?)

Post by palerider » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:50 am

GMEO wrote:the finger doll with a milkbottle (lol, what is that even?!)
imho, something cute and cuddly, instead of hard plastic, and utilitarian.

there's a lot of 'cute' in japanese culture.

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