Resmed S9 water in mask

Ok I have read alot of posts all over the net and still cant seem to find a definite answer for my water problem. I have the Resmed S9 and for the past 2 weeks I have been woken up by water in my mask. Backing up a bit, I have had this machine for about a year and 1/2 and always ran the humidity on 4.0 with no heat. (didnt want warm air in my face). so 2 weeks ago it was pretty hot outside here in Massachusetts but still only had fans in windows, I was woken up to blowing bubbles in the water trapped in my mask. So I turned it down to 2.0 and that made no difference. The following night I turned it down to 0.5 and still water all over my face and waking me up. So I turned it to 0 and again same thing. So I called my company and they said to try it with the water tank completely out of the machine. Did that for 2 nights and still same thing so they brought me a new machine. I have now had the new machine for 4 days and with or without the water tank in it, it does the same thing. Now my machine sits in front of a window and there has been dew on the ground in the morning and again I am not running an AC. How do I stop this water? Dont want heated air and room is not cold. Sleeping has sucked since this started and I never had this problem before now.

First of all....Make sure you haven't overfilled the water chamber. The S9 will blow water into the hose and into the mask if the water chamber is even just a tiny bit overfilled.
Edit...I see you said you used the machine with no water at all in the chamber but will leave this for others to see.

If the water chamber water hasn't been over filled.
If the water is only in the mask...most likely condensation of the moisture in your exhaled breath.
See this thread posts 2 and 3 for how to maybe reduce it.
viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html

the problem with all the posts I am reading is that they say wrap the hose or put under blankets to keep air warm or moisture warm. I dont want warm which is why i dont run the heater.

The cause of the condensation in the mask is the cooler bedroom ambient air temps colliding with the warmer and heavy with moisture, air in the mask which causes cooling of the air in the mask and cooler air simply can't hold as much moisture.

You have to warm up the air in the mask in some manner to stop the cooling. It's physics. Either keep the air in the mask warmer or warm the ambient room temp so it doesn't cool so much. That's pretty much your choices for water in the mask that comes from the moisture in your exhaled breath.

Wrapping the hose to help insulate the air in the hose doesn't add all that much warmth but it does help keep the air warmer to maybe help with that cooling that you want to avoid.

Water in the hose/mask.....if your ambient humidity is high and you expel moisture laden breaths...and that air cools to the point of releasing the moisture...condensation is going to occur.

The other choice would be to try to limit the ambient humidity in the bedroom air. Close the windows and use the AC. It might help.

I just thought of a hypothetical question as I was reading this post. Say for example I remove the humidifier on my S9 and attach the hose directly to the APAP. Say I keep the machine lower than my mattress as recommended. What happens if condensation forms in the hose and then runs back to the APAP? I assume the water will damage the unit.

Did I miss the kind of mask?

englandsf wrote:Did I miss the kind of mask?

Doesn't really matter what kind. The physics involved are the same no matter what kind of mask but OP did say "wet all over my face" which sounds like a FFM to me but it could also just be a cold shower from nasal pillows venting (which I have experienced first hand).

I meant what brand/model as venting may have a role to play too. If the mask is not only cold but blocked, condensation would be much worse - no? e.g. blocked P10 vent screens would do it...

LSAT wrote: Say I keep the machine lower than my mattress as recommended. What happens if condensation forms in the hose and then runs back to the APAP? I assume the water will damage the unit.

You don't say what machine you use in your "sig". But assuming you have some condensation in your tube and the machine has a ResMed style humidifier attached, the condensation just runs back into the humidifier tray. At least does on my S9 with humidifier.

I found putting my machine lower blocks the fan noise noise from my wife, and now don't get any condensation in my masks or pillows that annoys me.

WIN>WIN

OldSarge wrote:

LSAT wrote: Say I keep the machine lower than my mattress as recommended. What happens if condensation forms in the hose and then runs back to the APAP? I assume the water will damage the unit.

You don't say what machine you use in your "sig". But assuming you have some condensation in your tube and the machine has a ResMed style humidifier attached, the condensation just runs back into the humidifier tray. At least does on my S9 with humidifier.

I found putting my machine lower blocks the fan noise noise from my wife, and now don't get any condensation in my masks or pillows that annoys me.

WIN>WIN

This has nothing to do with the question I presented. I do not have a problem...it was hypothetical.

LSAT wrote:I just thought of a hypothetical question as I was reading this post. Say for example I remove the humidifier on my S9 and attach the hose directly to the APAP. Say I keep the machine lower than my mattress as recommended. What happens if condensation forms in the hose and then runs back to the APAP? I assume the water will damage the unit.

hypothetically, if you have no added humidity, then hypothetically, no condensation can form in the tube.

condensation happens when the relative humidity of air exceeds 100%, typically because the temperature is lowered.

in your scenario, you have room air at some temp and precentage, pumped through a fan, which raises the temp slightly, thus lowering the relative humidity, slightly, this then passes through a tube that is at slighty above ambient temperature at the start (due to the slightly warmer air) which, by the time it reaches the mask is most likely back down to ambient temperature, so, the air on the outside of the hose is not condensing on the hose, why would the air on the inside condense on the hose? it wouldn't, not unless you have a chilled hose. then moisture would condense on it much like on the outside of a glass with a chilled beverage.

in fact, that's what's happening with the normal setup, you have air heated and humidified from the tank, which passes through a (to it) chilled hose, and if the difference in temps is enough, you get condensation.

but, with everything at ambient temps, no condensation, unless your relative humidity in the room is at 100%, in which case water is going to be condensing everywhere... like the morning dew. (see dew point).

OldSarge wrote:

LSAT wrote: Say I keep the machine lower than my mattress as recommended. What happens if condensation forms in the hose and then runs back to the APAP? I assume the water will damage the unit.

You don't say what machine you use in your "sig". But assuming you have some condensation in your tube and the machine has a ResMed style humidifier attached, the condensation just runs back into the humidifier tray. At least does on my S9 with humidifier.

um, did you not read the post you're replying to?

djmr1972 wrote:Ok I have read alot of posts all over the net and still cant seem to find a definite answer for my water problem. I have the Resmed S9 and for the past 2 weeks I have been woken up by water in my mask. Backing up a bit, I have had this machine for about a year and 1/2 and always ran the humidity on 4.0 with no heat. (didnt want warm air in my face).

The bold, italicized statement makes no sense: If the heated humidifier is set to 4.0, then it is heating the water in the tub. So I don't understand why you think there is no heat being added when the humidifier is set to 4.0.

Or do you mean that you are not using a heated hose? Or that you have the heated hose set to OFF so that it is not further heating the air in the tube?

so 2 weeks ago it was pretty hot outside here in Massachusetts but still only had fans in windows, I was woken up to blowing bubbles in the water trapped in my mask. So I turned it down to 2.0 and that made no difference. The following night I turned it down to 0.5 and still water all over my face and waking me up.

The humidifier is still using heat to warm up the water at settings of 2.0 and 0.5.

So I turned it to 0 and again same thing. So I called my company and they said to try it with the water tank completely out of the machine. Did that for 2 nights and still same thing so they brought me a new machine.

Running with water in the tank, but the humidifier set to 0 means you are running in passover mode: The humidifier is NOT heating the water at all when set to 0, but a small amount of additional humidity is added to the air as it blows over the room temperature water in the tube.

I have now had the new machine for 4 days and with or without the water tank in it, it does the same thing.

If you are getting water in the mask when you have NO water in your humidifer tank, then the rainout is coming from the water vapor in your own exhalations. When you exhale into the mask, you are exhaling air that is essentially body temperature (98 F) and very, very humid (relative humidity of that 98 F air is up around 80% or so). When that very moist 98 F exhaled air hits the room temperature air in the mask, it cools off and can no longer hold as much water vapor. And then the water vapor from your exhaled air condenses out in the form of water droplets on the inside of your mask and lands on your face.

Now my machine sits in front of a window and there has been dew on the ground in the morning and again I am not running an AC. How do I stop this water?

The facts that your PAP sits right in front of the window, there's been dew on the ground, and you're not running the AC all mean the ambient air being blown into the tube and mask is already pretty close to being fully saturated (i.e. close to 100% relative humidity). Hence it cannot hold much additional moisture. When the humid 98 F exhaled air hits the fully saturated room temperature air in your mask, the result is that the 98 F air cools off and the additional water vapor from the exhaled air cannot be "held" by the already saturated room temperature air in the mask. Hence it condenses out and you get water droplets on the inside of your mask and falling onto your face.

The only way to "stop this water" is either by heating the air in the tube so that it is closer to body temperature OR reducing the relative humidity of the ambient air being blown into the mask by the machine.

Dont want heated air and room is not cold. Sleeping has sucked since this started and I never had this problem before now.

Unless you are sleeping in a sauna, the air in room is much cooler than the air you are exhaling into the mask.

If your room is at around 78 F, there's a 20 degree difference in temperature between the air you are exhaling (which is at body temperature) and the air being blown into the mask (which is at room temperature). If the room air is already pretty close to full saturation (which dew and no AC indicate), then when that saturated 98 F exhaled air hits the 78 F air in the mask, the 98 F air is going to cool off and less water vapor can be held in the cooler air. Since the room air is already saturated, that excess water vapor from your own exhalation has no where to go except for condensing out on the inside of your mask.

If you don't want to use the heated humidifier with a hose cozy or run the hose under the bed so that the air in the tube is closer to body temperature, the only way to combat the rainout problem you are dealing with is to run the AC in order to reduce the relative humidity in the ambient air.

If you are unwilling to run the AC, you could try moving the CPAP to a spot farther away from the window. The air that's coming in from the window may be cooler than the rest of the bedroom's air, but it is also far more saturated with water vapor.