Testing Auto CPAP Without a Prescription?

Hello,

I've been struggling with fatigue for several years. I have had many tests and tried many things to increase my energy, but have not been met with success. I recently discovered that I have many of the symptoms of sleep apnea. After realizing this, I recorded myself sleeping. I'm 36 years old and have lived alone most of my adult life, so I was surprised to find that I snore very loudly. It's difficult to tell with just audio, but I'm pretty sure I had a few apneas throughout the night too.

I talked to my doctor about it and got referred to a specialist. I had a sleep study done about a week and half ago, but I didn't sleep enough to get good results. I mostly just laid there with my eyes closed, frustrated, from 10:30pm to 6:00am. I did doze off a couple of times and lightly slept for a total of 131 minutes. They did not record any apneas, but due to the lack of sleep my doctor recommended a second study. I was hoping to do the home study, but I couldn't get the equipment for 5-6 weeks. Now it looks like I'll be doing another full sleep study with Ambien (which I'm not looking forward to). I should be able to get in for that in a about 3 weeks.

I'm finding the time it takes to do tests and get results is excruciatingly slow. I'm sure this is typical, but I'm at my wits end. I might not have sleep apnea, but I just want some answers. I went back to school a year ago and am struggling. Especially during the fall and spring semesters. I am not working right now, so I have plenty of time to focus on school, but the fatigue and difficulty concentrating is taking its toll. I've already been looking into this possible sleep apnea for over two months, and have the next month free before going back to school. I'm desperate to get this sorted before the fall semester so I can take on the full course load that is needed.

Since these studies and results take several weeks/months, I'm wondering if there is a way to just try an auto cpap machine for a month without a diagnosis or prescription? The machine seems harmless enough, and I would be able to see if it helps with the fatigue. I'm also thinking that the auto cpap could perhaps help with an "informal" diagnosis, since it automatically adjusts if you're not getting enough air. I would guess that the machine would stay at the lowest pressure setting if I'm not needing assistance, but would increase if I'm struggling to breathe. I don't know enough about these machines, but I've heard they can be used for titration and figured it might provide some useful information.

As for the means? I don't have a diagnosis or prescription so I doubt I can get my hands on a machine myself. However, my brother is diagnosed with sleep apnea and uses CPAP. I'm thinking maybe I could convince him to rent an auto cpap machine for a month and let me try it. With the machine rental and mask I'm guessing it would be a couple hundred dollars out of pocket, but it might be worth it if I can speed up the process a bit and use it as a patch until a more permanent solution can be worked out.

What are your thoughts? Could this work? Would it be safe?

Thanks,
Matthew

I take it your brother doesn't have a spare machine you could borrow?

I assume you are in the US? If so, not many cpap suppliers will do what you want with renting for just a month.

I would think about using the brothers RX for a machine and if it turns out you don't have OSA...your brother could have a spare machine.
I would look at Secondwindcpap.com for a gently used APAP (assuming your brother has plain jane OSA and doesn't use one of those high end ASV machines for central apnea).
Stick with looking at either the ResMed S9 AutoSet or the Respironics PR System One Auto CPAP (model 550 or 560) because they both gather the data you would need or want and software is easy to obtain and use with those models. The other brands also offer data and software but not so easy to get and use and some require additional expense of special module to get what you want.

Local Craigslist is also an option but you really need to know your machine modules and fair prices and sometimes have to wait for a good deal on a good machine.

there's a place here in dallas that does exactly what you're looking for, actually.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/had/4572014376.html

there may be something similar in your area... and/or just pick up an auto machine off craigslist.

I did it the hard way with a manual one way back when.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Pugsy wrote: I take it your brother doesn't have a spare machine you could borrow?

I assume you are in the US?

No spare that I can borrow unfortunately. Yes, I am located in the US.

Pugsy wrote: I would think about using the brothers RX for a machine and if it turns out you don't have OSA...your brother could have a spare machine.
I would look at Secondwindcpap.com for a gently used APAP (assuming your brother has plain jane OSA and doesn't use one of those high end ASV machines for central apnea).
Stick with looking at either the ResMed S9 AutoSet or the Respironics PR System One Auto CPAP (model 550 or 560) because they both gather the data you would need or want and software is easy to obtain and use with those models. The other brands also offer data and software but not so easy to get and use and some require additional expense of special module to get what you want.

Purchasing one for me to try, and just giving it to my brother as a backup if I don't need it isn't a bad idea. Especially considering some of those prices on Secondwindcpap.com. Thanks for the suggestion and model recommendations.

palerider wrote: there's a place here in dallas that does exactly what you're looking for, actually.

Thanks, I see there are a couple of places in the Twin Cities area too.

I was originally thinking of using http://www.cpapsupplyusa.com/cpap-machi ... hines.aspx. $120 for 35 days doesn't seem too bad, though the deposit is a bit steep and they hit you hard if you don't return it on time. I don't think you can choose a specific machine with them either. Has anyone rented from cpapsupplyusa.com? Any thoughts on them?

Thanks,
Matthew

For that price you might be able to find one on craigslist or right on this forum. Tho you should spend some time here reading so you can learn which machines have data since you will need data to do what you want to do.

resmed S9 with a ref number => 36003, PRS1 with a ref number => 450.

Thanks again for the information!

I was able to get my hands on a ResMed S9 AutoSet ref:369005A for a couple of weeks. I don't know exactly what kind of data this thing collects. I did try opening the files with notepad and could glean a little info from there, but I didn't see anything relating to AHI. I downloaded the SleepyHead software and will see what info I can extract with that.

I'm thinking that I'd like to set the machine to the lowest setting and allow it to auto adjust to any events that I might have throughout the night. Then use the data collected to calculate my average AHI over the next couple of weeks. I guess I'm not even sure if this is possible as I don't know much about the machine at the moment. I'm hoping something like this will work though.

Does anyone have any advice/tips/tricks or links to information that could help me gather the best information over the next couple of weeks?

Thanks,
Matthew

Grok wrote:Thanks again for the information!

I was able to get my hands on a ResMed S9 AutoSet ref:369005A for a couple of weeks. I don't know exactly what kind of data this thing collects. I did try opening the files with notepad and could glean a little info from there, but I didn't see anything relating to AHI. I downloaded the SleepyHead software and will see what info I can extract with that.

I'm thinking that I'd like to set the machine to the lowest setting and allow it to auto adjust to any events that I might have throughout the night. Then use the data collected to calculate my average AHI over the next couple of weeks. I guess I'm not even sure if this is possible as I don't know much about the machine at the moment. I'm hoping something like this will work though.

Does anyone have any advice/tips/tricks or links to information that could help me gather the best information over the next couple of weeks?

Thanks,
Matthew

oh, the s9 series (including yours) collects a ton of data...
statistical data,
apnea or hypopnea events (by the second)
flow limitations (every half second)
leaks (every half second)
minute ventilation (every half second)
pressure (every half second)
snores (every half second)
and air flow (25 times a second)

sleepyhead will show you your average over the time you use the machine.

once you get some data, you can see where the machine likes to end up, and narrow the range of auto pressures so that you're 'in the zone' from the start, instead of waiting for the machine to catch up to your needs.

Grok wrote:Does anyone have any advice/tips/tricks or links to information that could help me gather the best information over the next couple of weeks?

Get SleepyHead if you haven't already done so. Check the links in my signature line for some other hints.

palerider wrote:oh, the s9 series (including yours) collects a ton of data...
statistical data,
apnea or hypopnea events (by the second)
flow limitations (every half second)
leaks (every half second)
minute ventilation (every half second)
pressure (every half second)
snores (every half second)
and air flow (25 times a second)
...
sleepyhead will show you your average over the time you use the machine.

once you get some data, you can see where the machine likes to end up, and narrow the range of auto pressures so that you're 'in the zone' from the start, instead of waiting for the machine to catch up to your needs.

Perfect! That's exactly the type of data I was hoping for. I see what you're talking about with the range. I set it from 4.0 to 9.0 to start. I'll see what kind of data shows up and take it from there. Thanks.

archangle wrote:Get SleepyHead if you haven't already done so. Check the links in my signature line for some other hints.

The link showing how to get into clinician mode was particularly helpful. Thank you.